Leeds 1-1 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[sycophantia]

On the way back from the game and I can’t help but think most of the criticism is based on pre conceived ideas rather than looking at the game for what actually happened.

We started well and on the front foot but then once Leeds got in to a bit of a rhythm struggled to get out mainly down to poor decisions from the front 3 and the 2 in midfield unable to pick a pass.

It’s the squads inability to be calm and make better decisions under pressure that costs us rather than anything tactically. Bruno was fuming most of the game with the players management of it.

While Leeds dominated in the second half we still had chances to finish them off with good play but failed to take the chances, whether that was Raul, Ait-Nouri, Podence or Hwang. Fatigue killed us in the end as up until RAN went off we never really looked like conceding apart from when Coady played an awful clip in to midfield and Sa made a great save. The defending was resolute and it did look like we had done enough until Semedo had a brain fade.

The football isn’t as good as it was in the first 3 games but don’t think it’s as easy as saying it’s now shit and there isn’t a plan. We know there’s weaknesses in the squad and we know they struggle to control the ball and win games so a mix is needed. We get the mix at the moment and it is a case of digging in at times but we’re picking up points. Bruno still needs to work with this squad and it 100% needs adding to but doesn’t seem like a few fans are really prepared to give him that because of what comes across as pining for Nuno and the good times.

Again it wasn’t great today and yes Leeds were without couple of players but they are a hard team to play against if you struggle to play through a press and we do and without new players we’re not really going to be able to do that as the lads we have at the moment can’t do it often enough although Ait-Nouri did help a little until cramp got him.

Sa, Ait-Nouri, Saiss, Kilman were all good today(Semedo too until just before the penalty). Most of the others worked hard but weren’t good enough on the ball. Donk always in the right place but never picked the right pass and gave it away too often and the front 3 just didn’t hold it enough and constantly make the wrong decisions when in the final third.

We’re a work in progress still and i personally think the whole well why did we sack Nuno if this is the style needs to be dropped but people are obviously entitled to their view. Biggest thing for me is that Bruno definitely doesn’t want to play deep and sit in but at times this squad has to and battle which we still do. Give him time and patience to hopefully bed more players and returning players in and transition to a more forward thinking approach. If we can’t then still play a more forward thinking game then we can question it but i do think most fans who were patient with Nuno and rightly so are keen to
criticise Bruno too quick.

Thanks for a common sense report from someone who was there.....you're my new favourite poster.

 

[Tony Towner]

I think most of this analysis of the game is fairly accurate but the way the last 30 minutes were managed was very very poor. We had spells in the game where you realised if we looked to retain the ball for more than one pass we would open them up quite easily. They were so vulnerable. Then we take Adama off which allows them to play a lot higher and make it even harder for us to get and stay out of our own half.

I think Bruno is clearly a good coach. I think we will struggle to perform consistently due to some glaring holes in our squad, but I am unsure of some of the things he's tried to do tactically mind you. We'll see if that is a pattern over a long period of the season though.

This is where the truth lies. To try and pretend today's tactical decisions were all on the players and Bruno was some frustrated onlooker without a part to play in that is very generous.

 

[Carsy]

I mean, isn't it still the first few games though??

There’s a stark contrast to how we set up and played from the first 3 games to current.

It’s almost like Lage has panicked early, though ‘shit, we don’t have the quality to do what I want’ and has reverted to lower risk football.

If that’s the case, we were falling down on finishing chances, so if we go after more attacking players in window that could signal that.

Again, I think the majority are happy with points and league position, but concerned with the lack of ‘DNA’ (hate the term). We’re abit like United in I don’t know what our style of football currently is. That’s my concern currently

 

[prawnking]

You are a Wolves fan, you invest way too much time and are too knowledgeable to not be. I do believe you don't offer your true opinions to be (being generous) devil's advocate a hell of a lot though. You obviously enjoy it.

I don't get the over analysis of a minor poster like myself, or why it's relevant.

I think I've been pretty consistent with my support of Bruno and patience with the process, I haven't said anywhere everything is hunky dory, but also we're in the top 5 form table for the past half a dozen games, so I think my views are perfectly proportionate and agenda-free

 

[Carsy]

On the way back from the game and I can’t help but think most of the criticism is based on pre conceived ideas rather than looking at the game for what actually happened.

We started well and on the front foot but then once Leeds got in to a bit of a rhythm struggled to get out mainly down to poor decisions from the front 3 and the 2 in midfield unable to pick a pass.

It’s the squads inability to be calm and make better decisions under pressure that costs us rather than anything tactically. Bruno was fuming most of the game with the players management of it.

While Leeds dominated in the second half we still had chances to finish them off with good play but failed to take the chances, whether that was Raul, Ait-Nouri, Podence or Hwang. Fatigue killed us in the end as up until RAN went off we never really looked like conceding apart from when Coady played an awful clip in to midfield and Sa made a great save. The defending was resolute and it did look like we had done enough until Semedo had a brain fade.

The football isn’t as good as it was in the first 3 games but don’t think it’s as easy as saying it’s now shit and there isn’t a plan. We know there’s weaknesses in the squad and we know they struggle to control the ball and win games so a mix is needed. We get the mix at the moment and it is a case of digging in at times but we’re picking up points. Bruno still needs to work with this squad and it 100% needs adding to but doesn’t seem like a few fans are really prepared to give him that because of what comes across as pining for Nuno and the good times.

Again it wasn’t great today and yes Leeds were without couple of players but they are a hard team to play against if you struggle to play through a press and we do and without new players we’re not really going to be able to do that as the lads we have at the moment can’t do it often enough although Ait-Nouri did help a little until cramp got him.

Sa, Ait-Nouri, Saiss, Kilman were all good today(Semedo too until just before the penalty). Most of the others worked hard but weren’t good enough on the ball. Donk always in the right place but never picked the right pass and gave it away too often and the front 3 just didn’t hold it enough and constantly make the wrong decisions when in the final third.

We’re a work in progress still and i personally think the whole well why did we sack Nuno if this is the style needs to be dropped but people are obviously entitled to their view. Biggest thing for me is that Bruno definitely doesn’t want to play deep and sit in but at times this squad has to and battle which we still do. Give him time and patience to hopefully bed more players and returning players in and transition to a more forward thinking approach. If we can’t then still play a more forward thinking game then we can question it but i do think most fans who were patient with Nuno and rightly so are keen to
criticise Bruno too quick.

Thanks for that. Interesting to hear about Lage on the sideline. You don’t see that side of it watching the stream.

Unfortunately that’s the caveat with management, if the team don’t implement a plan on the face of it it will appear as there is no plan.

 

[slink]

This is where the truth lies. To try and pretend today's tactical decisions were all on the players and Bruno was some frustrated onlooker without a part to play in that is very generous.

Bruno isn’t absolved of any blame but it’s not like he sent them out to play that deep and to struggle to get out which seemed to be the main criticism. Didn’t agree with the Traore sub and wouldn’t have switched Semedo over to the left but understand why he did both. He couldn’t control the tiredness in the last 5/10 minutes either which is clearly the biggest reason for us conceding.

 

[redvictor]

What, were you born yesterday?

oddly enough...no!

 

[slink]

Thanks for that. Interesting to hear about Lage on the sideline. You don’t see that side of it watching the stream.

Unfortunately that’s the caveat with management, if the team don’t implement a plan on the face of it it will appear as there is no plan.

That’s one of my biggest points really, it’s hard to watch at home and completely get the feel for the game. Leeds crowd were fantastic second half too and that definitely helped.

Just to give an example too of things that you could miss is the Saiss challenge on Raphinha. The ref gave handball and booked Saiss for dissent rather than the challenge which it seems quite a few have missed.

 

[Johnny75]

Bruno isn’t absolved of any blame but it’s not like he sent them out to play that deep and to struggle to get out which seemed to be the main criticism. Didn’t agree with the Traore sub and wouldn’t have switched Semedo over to the left but understand why he did both. He couldn’t control the tiredness in the last 5/10 minutes either which is clearly the biggest reason for us conceding.

Isn't it the manager's job to convey his plan effectively and manager the players he has at his disposal?

I understand you want Bruno to do well, we all want us to do well, so can you explain what his plan is and why is changed so much since the first 3 games?

 

[Wilf Wolf]

Really struggling to see how Lage is trying to play. First three games though disappointing result-wise showed plenty of green shoots but since then they’ve been trampled underfoot. Apart from much of the Newcastle game we’ve been average and results have far exceeded performances.

Today was summed up perfectly by a moment in the second half when Donk was on the half way line and had a fairly straightforward pass to a wide player on the right but he opted to go backwards. It prompted the commentator to talk about a transition to a possession based game. It’s been talked about a lot but any tangible evidence disappeared before the swallows this autumn. I accept Leeds are tough to play against but where was the courage to pass the ball and retain possession. All too often we played far too safely and the ball went backwards at which point it was hoofed forward and possession was lost anyway a matter of seconds later.

None of our players were dreadful but I thought the front three were poor and defensively RAN made Marcal look like prime Ashley Cole. I understand Lage was let down by the recruitment in the summer but that alone doesn’t explain the way we are approaching games. If we keep approaching games in the same way it will turn into another season where keeping at arm’s length from the relegation pack is the height of our ambition.

 

[YoungWolf]

That’s one of my biggest points really, it’s hard to watch at home and completely get the feel for the game. Leeds crowd were fantastic second half too and that definitely helped.

Just to give an example too of things that you could miss is the Saiss challenge on Raphinha. The ref gave handball and booked Saiss for dissent rather than the challenge which it seems quite a few have missed.

You could tell how loud Leeds crowd was last half an hour tbf!

 

[redvictor]

so can you explain what his plan is and why is changed so much since the first 3 games?

I'm not a manager or part of the set up so i wouldn't know the plan, but it's obvious (to me) why it's changed from the first three games.
3 games, zero points, zero goals is the reason. It doesn't matter how you play if you have no return from it.

I'm sure he'd love to continue to play that way, but he'd be on a plane back to Portugal if it would have lasted till now. Remember we have some hellish fixtures in December, so now is the time to pick up points however you can. Maybe we'll see some different football against an opposition that allow it.

 

[Johnny75]

I'm not a manager or part of the set up so i wouldn't know the plan, but it's obvious (to me) why it's changed from the first three games.
3 games, zero points, zero goals is the reason. It doesn't matter how you play if you have no return from it.

I'm sure he'd love to continue to play that way, but he'd be on a plane back to Portugal if it would have lasted till now. Remember we have some hellish fixtures in December, so now is the time to pick up points however you can. Maybe we'll see some different football against an opposition that allow it.

I don't agree with any of that. To a large extent we played the same against Watford and won.

Our problem for the first 3 games was Raul not up to speed and Adama/ Trincao not being able to finish. A mistake from Marçal and two from Sa.

I think if we played the same but had Hwang instead of Adama for the first 3 games we'd have won all three.

 

[redvictor]

I don't agree with any of that.

I didn't ask you to! We all have an opinion on it.

 

[Carsy]

I don't agree with any of that. To a large extent we played the same against Watford and won.

Our problem for the first 3 games was Raul not up to speed and Adama/ Trincao not being able to finish. A mistake from Marçal and two from Sa.

I think if we played the same but had Hwang instead of Adama for the first 3 games we'd have won all three.

But would hwang have been in same positions/made same runs? It’s impossible to say isn’t it

Think we will agree that hwang is a useful addition, mind.

Quite happy with our wide forward choices,Neto,podence,hwang,trincao,traore. More concerned with Raul tbh

 

[Tony Towner]

I'm not a manager or part of the set up so i wouldn't know the plan, but it's obvious (to me) why it's changed from the first three games.
3 games, zero points, zero goals is the reason. It doesn't matter how you play if you have no return from it.

I'm sure he'd love to continue to play that way, but he'd be on a plane back to Portugal if it would have lasted till now. Remember we have some hellish fixtures in December, so now is the time to pick up points however you can. Maybe we'll see some different football against an opposition that allow it.

I don't think it's that binary tbh

 

[redvictor]

I don't think it's that binary tbh

Well, it's not 100 lines on it, but for me that is the bones of it. Again it's the opinion thing. We've all got our opinion on what and how, but a for sure thing is if you keep losing you don't keep your job in this game. Whether we would have lost (or won) is irrelevant at the point we had nothing from those first three games, especially as he was a new guy in this league.

 

[slink]

Isn't it the manager's job to convey his plan effectively and manager the players he has at his disposal?

I understand you want Bruno to do well, we all want us to do well, so can you explain what his plan is and why is changed so much since the first 3 games?

Of course it is but you know that and you also know that these players aren’t quite suited to doing what Bruno wants them to do(the first 3 games) He tried and we didn’t get the results we deserved against Sides that didn’t press us though. We’ve been more like last season since then with glimpses of what Bruno wants to implement but it’s easy for these players to revert back to sit and hold. Wilf mentioned the Donk pass backwards in the second half when there was a clear pass on to break lines forward but he just didn’t ever look for it. Everyone berated him but it was a clear sign that sometimes we still struggle to be positive on the ball and it’s still early days under Bruno.

You know what the plan is and that does still come out at times but we are struggling to fully implement it and sometimes that is down to the players we have and sometimes down to Bruno not getting everything spot on but who does. We’re having to dig in at times at the moment and it’s not always a great watch and hard to see the actual plan without taking everything in to account rather than just our performance but we’re 10th and would be 4th if Semedo didn’t give the ref a decision to make today. So all in all i would say it’s not that bad while appreciating there’s a lot to still improve but understanding it needs time keeping an open mind.

 

[slink]

You could tell how loud Leeds crowd was last half an hour tbf!

The loudest I’ve ever heard a home crowd i think which you don’t really expect when a team is 1-0 down but the whole ground got behind them.

 

[Throbber3]

The better sides in this league will sweep us away on current performances.
Bruno gone from being very unlucky to being very lucky.
I’m not sure what we’re supposed to be currently.

We have the points we deserve. Just not from the matches we deserved them in. It’s a strange one. I want to give Lage time but it’s almost as if he is managing by numbers at the moment. I hope he and the squad click. He will probably win manager if the month now !