Liverpool vs Wolves Build-up Thread

[Deleted Cyber]

Well, i have to explain. I didn't google Heysel before i posted i went on my memories from watching the match, and the build up before.

My point was to stress football supporters at the time, not get professorial about every detail about Hysel and the fatal aftermath.

My comment "before the start" for me encompassed all the time the fans were inside the ground and that was more than an hour before.
Heysel was falling to pieces and as someone else commented earlier, finding a brick or a lump of concrete to hurl at the opposition supporters required nil intelligence, which fans from both sides were fully equipped to do.

Stones, bricks , lumps of concrete were raining from the supposedly neutral zone and the liverpool zone like snow on a perfect christmas day.
It was inevitable that one side or the other would charge their opponents, that's what fans did back in the day. So Liverpool supporters did and with devastating effect.
But to accuse them of being murderers was the point that caused me to take to the mighty (ha ha ) keyboard.
In those days violence was as much part of the matchday package as the ticket to get in, and both sides supporters, even before the game in the city, made the most of the opportunity.
They were both in a neutral city, there were not really passport seizures back then and banning orders, it was a free for all.
I never intended to take blame away from Liverpool, but i believe, from what i saw live at the time, that Juve supporters also needed a quick trip to the confessional too.
Ok that's my point, keyboard warriors load your guns and fire away, but don't charge, you never know what the result will be.

thats fair enough.

 

[The Bear]

A bit of love from Jurgen ze German.

-----------------------

Klopp added in his programme notes about Wolves: "What a football team."

"Nuno is rightly at the top of the list where people talk about 'manager of the season' because of what he and his guys do at Wolves."

"Wolves are intense. They are powerful, energetic, clever, adventurous."

"They believe in their plan and they execute it well.”

 

[Derby Wolf]

Liverpool played a role in Heysel as did UEFA and the police.

- Liverpool and Juventus both wrote to UEFA requesting a stadium change as mentioned it was a shithole.
- Liverpool and Juventus jointly opposed a neutral zone because fans of both clubs could mingle as a result of ticket touts etc
- UEFA sold tickets to Juventus fans in a Liverpool area

UEFA pulled a lot of shit over Heysel and then threw their hands up and said "English disease" when it transpired to be a disaster.

Liverpool fans that night played their role but it was never exclusively them, there's equal blood on UEFAs hands and the police which is why UEFA officials and matchday commanders were also convicted.

 

[Johnny75]

No doubt that those circumstances allowed a situation where violence occurred but the wall didn't fall over on its own.

I also don't think the excuse 'it was commonplace therefore accepted' is palatable. Those fans killed people not the crumbling structure. To give a parallel, the Bradford fire was the fault of the fire safety officers, ground maintenance and ground owners (all public record) as nobody set that off deliberately.

That was not the case at Heysel. Blaming the ground and UEFA smells of apologising for fans behaviour.

 

[visage]

Any disaster requires a multitude of things to go wrong. Otherwise they'd happen daily.

So theres always multiple causes. Each of them contributing, but none of them solely responsible.

 

[Johnny75]

Any disaster requires a multitude of things to go wrong. Otherwise they'd happen daily.

So theres always multiple causes. Each of them contributing, but none of them solely responsible.

I don't think that's true. There's always one thing that is the trigger. You can look at circumstance but there's always one action that trumps all others. In this case the fans pushing the wall. Fans don't push the wall the disaster doesn't happen.

In much the same way that mass shootings are ultimately the responsibility of the shooter.

I get that if circumstances are different then things don't reach that point but that's not always possible.

 

[Derby Wolf]

I don't think that's true. There's always one thing that is the trigger. You can look at circumstance but there's always one action that trumps all others. In this case the fans pushing the wall. Fans don't push the wall the disaster doesn't happen.

In much the same way that mass shootings are ultimately the responsibility of the shooter.

I get that if circumstances are different then things don't reach that point but that's not always possible.

So by that logic it's Juventus fans fault? It was they who ran towards the crumbling wall. Liverpool supporters charging towards them could've had no idea a wall would collapse which is why the charge was manslaughter proving multiple avenues of responsibility (Not Juventus supporters for the avoidance of any doubt)