Palace 2-0 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[Alan]

Everyone wants shot of Coady and Adama, but their respective merits are a red herring. There just aren't strong, consistent, permanent replacements in the squad currently, except in people's minds

I think it would be very interesting to see a three of Boly, Saiss, and Kilman, but I'm not sure which I'd want playing Coady's role. Boly can switch off too easily, Saiss has a penchant for making Stearman tackles that he doesn't always get right, and Kilman, excellenty as he's been this season, still turns like a tugboat and could get exposed in that sweeper-esque position.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I think it would be very interesting to see a three of Boly, Saiss, and Kilman,

Why? After Kilman, Coady has been our most consistent defender this season, he's our captain and loved by every manager that has had anything to do with him, this perpetual desire to drop Coady from some Wolves fans baffles me.

Especially as the rest of your post gives reasons as to why others just wouldn't be any good in that role.

Benteke has won more headed duels than anyone else in the division, I certainly didn't see him getting much the better of Coady yesterday though, certainly not in the same way that Mitrovic or a couple of players of that ilk have in the past.

 

[AndyWolves]

I don't really think a formation change or a personel would have done much good to be honest.

We need to be better at playing around the press or decide that we aren't going to try to play around the press and setup to succeed when we go more direct.

If we're going to lump it then there is no point in the mids doing that when the CBs can. Let the CBs go more direct and allow the rest of the team to position themselves nearer to the forwards to help them out.

If we're going to continue with trying to maintain possession then we have a lot of work to do to stop yesterday happening again. I would be thinking about getting the forwards to drop deeper to give us more passing options. We'd only need to pull defenders out of a position a few times and get behind them to cause a team to rethink their high press. But crucial to all of this is maintaining possession, we just didn't do that yesterday - we need to put in as much energy to retain as the opposition are into pressing by movement, offering angles etc

 

[Derby Wolf]

One idea which might be worth considering is a 4132 with Coady/Dendoncker acting as a DM and more advanced than the two CB's but not fully in midfield. They can drop back a little further as required (Neves did a lot of hand holding under Nuno) but it would also allow Neves and Moutinho to play a little further forward and Raul and Hwang would be closer together as a two. Only reason I'm suggesting Coady there is his passing ability.

The big issues with this would be y'know, having to actually play Dendoncker. We'd also reliant on RAN and Somedo for width and their goals/contributions aren't great.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

We just can't play a back four. We couldn't last season, we couldn't in pre-season and all the defensive players are the same. We'd get battered all the time.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Just seen the highlights again, and i'm surprised how little criticism Sa has got for their 1st goal, fuck me, not only has he come for a ball just a couple of yards from the edge of the box that he has no right to go for, he clearly hasn't called very strongly as Kilman seems unaware he is coming and effectively impedes Sa.

Also, a huge fuck up from Hwang some 20 seconds earlier who played a dreadful ball to Raul instead of a simple ball to RAN who is in space, a run that meant we were totally open at LB. Then Coady and Saiss are too slow to get out after retreating to the line, Semedo too is culpable, there's just so many players at fault, but Hwang and Sa the most.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Just seen the highlights again, and i'm surprised how little criticism Sa has got for their 1st goal, fuck me, not only has he come for a ball just a couple of yards from the edge of the box that he has no right to go for, he clearly hasn't called very strongly as Kilman seems unaware he is coming and effectively impedes Sa.

Also, a huge fuck up from Hwang some 20 seconds earlier who played a dreadful ball to Raul instead of a simple ball to RAN who is in space, a run that meant we were totally open at LB. Then Coady and Saiss are too slow to get out after retreating to the line, Semedo too is culpable, there's just so many players at fault, but Hwang and Sa the most.

I pretty much said as much in my assessment that there was so much wrong, but that tends to be how goals are conceded - always a catalogue of errors.

But you can’t really blame a forward giving the ball away the other end of a pitch for a goal, particularly when the forwards did it all game. Then even when Sa fucks up, there is no danger. Semedo has the opportunity to put it to the half way line but doesn’t. And even if Semedo fails, if the defenders do their job even remotely competently and not bizarrely standing on the line, then the goal doesn’t happen. So you’ve got to work backwards really in the blame game. Coady > Saiss > Semedo > Sa > Hwang

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Coady most to blame?? Should have guessed!

Coady has gone to the line because his keeper has had a rush of blood to his head, but he is too slow to get out, but if Sa doesn't lose his mind, Kilman just heads that clear and we are ok.

As for Hwang, it was a really obvious, simple choice when we had a man over.

 

[Tony Towner]

Sa and Semedo are the most culpable, but Coady and Saiss are dozy

 

[PuntsWolf]

Coady most to blame?? Should have guessed!

Coady has gone to the line because his keeper has had a rush of blood to his head, but he is too slow to get out, but if Sa doesn't lose his mind, Kilman just heads that clear and we are ok.

As for Hwang, it was a really obvious, simple choice when we had a man over.

I agree with you. But it’s a series of errors. If the next man doesn’t make a mistake then the goal doesn’t happen. It’s a team game.

I’d prefer if you didn’t put me in one of these agenda debates too (regardless if you were joking). Haven’t mentioned Coady at all

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Fair enough, i misunderstood with ">" meaning greater than.

 

[sycophantia]

Just seen the highlights again, and i'm surprised how little criticism Sa has got for their 1st goal, fuck me, not only has he come for a ball just a couple of yards from the edge of the box that he has no right to go for, he clearly hasn't called very strongly as Kilman seems unaware he is coming and effectively impedes Sa.

Also, a huge fuck up from Hwang some 20 seconds earlier who played a dreadful ball to Raul instead of a simple ball to RAN who is in space, a run that meant we were totally open at LB. Then Coady and Saiss are too slow to get out after retreating to the line, Semedo too is culpable, there's just so many players at fault, but Hwang and Sa the most.

Yep it was a clusterfuck from the defence....when you spend a lot of the game sitting back defending, you're always in danger from a mistake(s) or a bit of bad luck

 

[northfield wolf]

Another bad day at the office, we are having a few of them, but sitting back all the time, well......we are inviting trouble. The 1st half on Monday night, we put the shits up Everton, then sat back again. I thought Bruno was known for attacking football ?

 

[PuntsWolf]

Well I was just working backwards. Same as United yesterday. Should AWB have pressured the cross - yes. Should Shaw, or maybe Maguire (can’t remember if he had a play on it) have dealt with it - yes. But at the end of the day the GK was there to bail his team out and he didn’t.


Sa is set here. What are Coady and Saiss doing? If anything they are in his way. They need to be busting a gut to get back out.


MacArthur has managed to dally loads, carry the ball, cut inside and release a pass. Saiss is finally trying to get out but it’s too late. Coady isn’t even trying to get out, he is shuffling accross, doing his customary stand 5 yards behind the defensive line. Zaha is trying to “stay onside” holding his run off Kilman but he didn’t need to as Saiss and Coady are playing him miles on.

Like I said, Sa and then Semedo fuck up. But if Coady and Saiss do there job properly then there’s no goal. There isn’t really any danger with MacArthur having the ball 35 yards out.

It’s a team game and when your team mate makes a mistake you try and bail them out

 

[sycophantia]

Another bad day at the office, we are having a few of them, but sitting back all the time, well......we are inviting trouble. The 1st half on Monday night, we put the shits up Everton, then sat back again. I thought Bruno was known for attacking football ?

Yeah it can bite you in the arse sitting back, tbf I think Monday was different, Everton made changes and pushed us back rather than us sitting back and even then we had the best chances.

 

[AndyWolves]

Well I was just working backwards. Same as United yesterday. Should AWB have pressured the cross - yes. Should Shaw, or maybe Maguire (can’t remember if he had a play on it) have dealt with it - yes. But at the end of the day the GK was there to bail his team out and he didn’t.

View attachment 4558
Sa is set here. What are Coady and Saiss doing? If anything they are in his way. They need to be busting a gut to get back out.

View attachment 4559
MacArthur has managed to dally loads, carry the ball, cut inside and release a pass. Saiss is finally trying to get out but it’s too late. Coady isn’t even trying to get out, he is shuffling accross, doing his customary stand 5 yards behind the defensive line. Zaha is trying to “stay onside” holding his run off Kilman but he didn’t need to as Saiss and Coady are playing him miles on.

Like I said, Sa and then Semedo fuck up. But if Coady and Saiss do there job properly then there’s no goal. There isn’t really any danger with MacArthur having the ball 35 yards out.

It’s a team game and when your team mate makes a mistake you try and bail them out

That's really good analysis.

Shows exactly what the issue was

 

[Throbber3]

Everyone wants shot of Coady and Adama, but their respective merits are a red herring. There just aren't strong, consistent, permanent replacements in the squad currently, except in people's minds

Nailed it!

we have the personnel to play three at the back

we are short of one centre half

we have three premier league standard midfield players and one is 35 .

The squad is too lean and has been for ages. The rest of the points are moot.

a decent CH and AM are a priority and have been for bloody ages

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

There's always something with Sa every single game, whatever the rights and wrongs of everyone involved in that goal yesterday. That can't carry on, it's unsustainable. I don't know whether it's concentration or he just isn't that good, but it has to stop and now.

Bad style of football on Saturday with zero threat and while Palace didn't exactly pepper us, they looked like scoring well before they did. I can take us being up and down with the current squad of players because we know there are key gaps in key areas, we knew that months ago. It'll mean a fair share of days like that in the short term though - stretching longer if we don't have a good window in January (and there has to be scepticism there, and I don't count signing a player who we've already got until the summer and have already agreed a fee for as good work in of itself).

The Adama sub was baffling as surely Lage must have seen when watching all our games from last season and before then - as we're told he did, and which his reputation for analysis would back up - that he can't play there. Like playing darts blindfolded that one, if he wanted to take a defender off for an attacker then there were various things he could have done rather than that.

 

[Throbber3]

There's always something with Sa every single game, whatever the rights and wrongs of everyone involved in that goal yesterday. That can't carry on, it's unsustainable. I don't know whether it's concentration or he just isn't that good, but it has to stop and now.

I know you are not keen, but I think that is harsh. Part of his make up is to be Grobbelaar like in his approach. He is bonkers. But he is also bloody good with position , attempts to control his area and in trying to get us moving forward again on the counter. He is one of the top five goalkeepers so far in the league if you believe the stats. You are right though in a certain degree , he will cost us goals and it would be good if he could curb a bit of his more over enthusiastic side but he is a steal for 6m . If he wasnt so nuts he has a very high ceiling. If you watched Patricio yesterday for Roma you would have been very glad of Sa. He had a real stinker. No command off his line or of the box and very easily beaten on a 1-1 in a defeat to Venezia 3-2. It was on in the Pub while I was eating lunch!

There were plenty of things wrong with the performance against Palace and Sa gets his share of the blame for the goal. If Hwang had smacked it into row Z then we would not have been having this discussion in the same context as it would have been another Sa "near miss". Trust me , there will be more and he will also save us plenty too.

 

[Tony Towner]

One thing I like about Sa is his consistency in coming for the ball. The defence know that and can account for it. It's why Saiss and Coady hit the line on the goal. Obviously you've then got to get out again, but that's a bad job by them. It's one of the reasons we are more solid defending set pieces. There's nothing wrong with being a line keeper like Patricio is more or less, but as a defence it's a different skill set to protect that which we too often didn't have the personnel and/or coaching to do.

He'll be very important next match because West Ham' s set piece delivery is top notch and as you saw yesterday on the first and third goals, legally blocking off the keeper is part of their strategy.

I can live with the occasional drop, if he costs us while going walkabout I'll be less tolerant. He hasn't to date, but there's been enough close misses to know it'll happen at some point