Refereeing question

[FrankMunro-371]

He was also clearly wearing the correct kit so will be fine.

Sorry, I am not sure what his kit has to do with his comments about Tottenham.

 

[PuntsWolf]

He also turned up on time...

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Clattenberg has made comments which beggar belief. I thought there was a serious discussion to be had about it, but as people wish to trivialise it, obviously I was wrong.

 

[Aikiwolf]

I can sort of get behind his thinking, not wanting to be seen as responsible for a ruining someone's chances in a high stakes game by sending players off.

I'm inclined to agree, given the amount of media overhype with any top flight red card, he didn't want to be pilloried by fans and the press.

It's a damning indictment of the media obsession with over analysing every decision and the pressure that is piled onto the ref.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's just dear old Clatts missing being relevant. An ego that size needs to be stroked and he's been forgotten while he's off taking Saudi money.

It wasn't even an especially important game, even if Spurs had won they'd still have been five points behind with two to play, Leicester had a free-falling Everton up next at home right before they sacked Martinez, on a run of 1 win in 8. They won that game comfortably although the title was won by then, even if it had still been on the line they'd have been highly likely to win. Clattenburg cost Spurs nothing and would have cost them nothing if he'd done his job properly.

Like Jeff Winter and Mark Halsey before him, he fell into the trap of thinking he was the story. No mate, you're not. Get on with reffing the game.

 

[Kenny]

Has he got a book coming out?

 

[VanWolfie]

It's just dear old Clatts missing being relevant. An ego that size needs to be stroked and he's been forgotten while he's off taking Saudi money.

It wasn't even an especially important game, even if Spurs had won they'd still have been five points behind with two to play, Leicester had a free-falling Everton up next at home right before they sacked Martinez, on a run of 1 win in 8. They won that game comfortably although the title was won by then, even if it had still been on the line they'd have been highly likely to win. Clattenburg cost Spurs nothing and would have cost them nothing if he'd done his job properly.

Like Jeff Winter and Mark Halsey before him, he fell into the trap of thinking he was the story. No mate, you're not. Get on with reffing the game.

I very much appreciate your comments here, Deutsch. A good referee is inconspicuous, the game and the players who determine it should always be the focus. I'm so disappointed in Clattenberg, he has spoiled what was a good refereeing profile and reputation.

 

[Tredman]

Sorry, I am not sure what his kit has to do with his comments about Tottenham.

It was a fatuous comment, but i thought your response illustrated the point quite well - referees take themselves far too seriously.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

It was a fatuous comment, but i thought your response illustrated the point quite well - referees take themselves far too seriously.

Refereeing is a serious business, there is a lot more to it than having the correct kit or turning up on time.

Clattenberg now trying to backtrack, but the damage has been done. Former referees such as Dermot Gallagher have been critical of his comments, as have former players. What Clattenberg did in that game was wrong on every level. He has always been a bit of an outcast in refereeing circles, but to put himself as more important than the game was wrong.

A referee has a duty to referee fairly, honestly and to apply the laws of the game correctly. I am not sure that Clattenberg did these things in the Chelsea v Tottenham game.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Has he got a book coming out?

It came out several times at Stamford Bridge...

 

[darlowolf64]

It came out several times at Stamford Bridge...

So Frank, about last night.
In commentary on Sky it was mentioned that a referee had told the commentator that when they step down from the Premier League to referee in a Championship game they are to not punish as many tough tackles as it's a "harder league". This can't be the right attitude to take, surely?
The first tackle on Jota was a clear yellow but the referee let it go, the second was borderline red and had the referee been in charge of Man City vs Swansea and that challenge made on De Bruyne would he have shown a straight red? If so, why not last night?

 

[AndyWolves]

I never understood why refs got hassle for "stop-start" games, or "ruining" games by sending somebody off.

Provided he's applied the rules of the game correctly then it's entirely the players fault if they continue to foul and/or commit offences deemed worthy of a red card

 

[FrankMunro-371]

So Frank, about last night.
In commentary on Sky it was mentioned that a referee had told the commentator that when they step down from the Premier League to referee in a Championship game they are to not punish as many tough tackles as it's a "harder league". This can't be the right attitude to take, surely?
The first tackle on Jota was a clear yellow but the referee let it go, the second was borderline red and had the referee been in charge of Man City vs Swansea and that challenge made on De Bruyne would he have shown a straight red? If so, why not last night?

I am not aware that officials are asked to allow more tackles to go unpunished. What they are told is that the skill level is not as high and that should be a factor when making decisions. And that principal applies all the way down the leagues and pyramid.

Regarding last night, I was disappointed with the referee. I normally try to stand up for referees but I am struggling to do so on this occasion. I can only presume that he did not cautioned Roberts for his first challenge as he didn't want to start showing cards too early, but what he did was make a rod for his own back. The first challenge by Roberts was a yellow card offence, and the second was disgraceful and should have been a straight red. Also I do not know why Mr. Hooper consulted with his colleagues before showing the yellow card. I have no problem with consultation over a difficult situation, but Roberts tackle was that bad that the referee should have dismissed him instantly.

The referee seemed too lenient all evening, and that helped Wolves when N'Diaye acted stupidly. He should also have been sent off, and I was very surprised when he only cautioned him.

Throughout the game I did not feel that the referee had full control, and I was expecting there to be a few flash points. I would be surprised if the assessor did not mention the Roberts and N'Diaye incidents in his report.

 

[darlowolf64]

I am not aware that officials are asked to allow more tackles to go unpunished. What they are told is that the skill level is not as high and that should be a factor when making decisions. And that principal applies all the way down the leagues and pyramid.

Regarding last night, I was disappointed with the referee. I normally try to stand up for referees but I am struggling to do so on this occasion. I can only presume that he did not cautioned Roberts for his first challenge as he didn't want to start showing cards too early, but what he did was make a rod for his own back. The first challenge by Roberts was a yellow card offence, and the second was disgraceful and should have been a straight red. Also I do not know why Mr. Hooper consulted with his colleagues before showing the yellow card. I have no problem with consultation over a difficult situation, but Roberts tackle was that bad that the referee should have dismissed him instantly.

The referee seemed too lenient all evening, and that helped Wolves when N'Diaye acted stupidly. He should also have been sent off, and I was very surprised when he only cautioned him.

Throughout the game I did not feel that the referee had full control, and I was expecting there to be a few flash points. I would be surprised if the assessor did not mention the Roberts and N'Diaye incidents in his report.

Thanks Frank, right along my train of thought. Because of his leniency we also had the late flashpoint that led to Dean being dismissed but it could all have been stamped out in the first 5 minutes by showing that first yellow card and thus stamping his authority on the game early on

 

[FrankMunro-371]

I never understood why refs got hassle for "stop-start" games, or "ruining" games by sending somebody off.

Provided he's applied the rules of the game correctly then it's entirely the players fault if they continue to foul and/or commit offences deemed worthy of a red card

From personal experience I have lost count of the times I have been told I have ruined the game after sending a player off. Too many players seem to think they can do as they wish without any punishment. Another common comment is "Come on ref, let the game flow", though often a referee needs to calm things down before things get out of hand. If tackles are flying in, often a referee will have 10 minutes when he blows for every foul just to keep the game under control.

 

[machin05]

Thought this was a good point by Bear in the matchday thread last night:

I always find that bizarre. Jota gets booked for squaring up with Morrison. So why doesn't Morrison get one too? One for the challenge, then one for the squaring up. So he's off.

Why not Frank? You see it all the time. Player will be booked for a challenge but the fouled player reacts and the two tussle. Both get booked but the​ fouling player never gets booked twice.

What gives, Frank?

 

[Langers]

Same for N'Diaye as well - the squaring up and then the shove. The latter could and maybe should have been enough for a red on it's own.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Same for N'Diaye as well - the squaring up and then the shove. The latter could and maybe should have been enough for a red on it's own.

Totally agree, and as I mentioned earlier, on this occasion the leniency of the referee favoured Wolves, but it was a red card offence.

 

[machin05]

Aww, Frank has me on ignore coz of my beer snobbery.... :/

 

[The Bear]

Can referees book a player twice within the same incident if there are two separate offences Frank?