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Boris at it again and the contest to replace the lying c***

It's actually a bit of a red herring to say the office market and values have collapsed because they/it hasn't.

Demand is subdued and supply has risen for obvious reasons but the office is still going to be a big part of working environments but just not 5 days a week.

Most people I know can't wait to get back into the office but want it to be a hybrid working structure going forward.
 
It's actually a bit of a red herring to say the office market and values have collapsed because they/it hasn't.

Demand is subdued and supply has risen for obvious reasons but the office is still going to be a big part of working environments but just not 5 days a week.

Most people I know can't wait to get back into the office but want it to be a hybrid working structure going forward.
Anecdotal of course but two friends who own small businesses in London are telling their staff to stay home and are binning the office off.
 
Our company has handed back the leases on our two largest UK offices and are busy looking for smaller premises, plan is teams in for 2 days a week on rota so people still interact with their direct colleagues but we need less floor space as not all teams are in together.
 
Anecdotal of course but two friends who own small businesses in London are telling their staff to stay home and are binning the office off.
There must be monumental savings to be had, obviously rent, mortgages, lighting, power, heating, but even daft things that can add up like tea, coffee, milk, sugar etc.

All of those items that, with people WFH companies haven't had to/won't have to pay for.
 
There must be monumental savings to be had, obviously rent, mortgages, lighting, power, heating, but even daft things that can add up like tea, coffee, milk, sugar etc.

All of those items that, with people WFH companies haven't had to/won't have to pay for.
Business rates too I'd guess?
 
There must be monumental savings to be had, obviously rent, mortgages, lighting, power, heating, but even daft things that can add up like tea, coffee, milk, sugar etc.

All of those items that, with people WFH companies haven't had to/won't have to pay for.
Just don't be investing in commercial property owning companies right now really - won't happen 100%, but will reduce demand & they will need to find something to do with those buildings.
 
Commercial property will follow retail in declining in value. A look around any town centre shows lots of vacant shops and soon it will be offices. Time for a rethink on how town centre buildings are used. I believe a lot will become residential in the next few years.
 
We're still building lots of offices, that way of working is far from disappearing.

Thankfully, from my point of view, I work for a fairly old fashioned outfit. Even without their generally sceptical view of remote working, which has no doubt been challenged this past year, they'd have little benefit in downscaling the office setup. We own our premises outright and the location can't have great redevelopment potential so wouldn't be much of an earner binning it off.

I'd genuinely have to seriously consider my career path if WFH was enforced as the norm. I'd certainly be wanting plenty of contribution towards a home office setup as an absolute minimum but I'd probably have to move house, or at least convert the attic, to establish something I'd be happy working in. Even then I'd still be somewhat perturbed at the idea of giving up part of my personal property for that purpose.

Nothing could replace the social side of it for me though, it's been just about bearable at the office for the last year with just enough close colleagues around to get through the day. I couldn't go days on end in solitude though, for me that tends to lead to boredom, distraction and a lack of productivity.
 
I don't think there'll be any enforcing of anything, from a HR/legal point of view it would be very difficult to permanently impose working conditions that didn't exist when you signed your contract, plus the spaces will be there, just in lower numbers. You also have to factor in the number of people who simply don't have the ability at all to work at home, eg living in shared housing, insufficient broadband access, being unable to perform all contracted duties remotely etc etc. On the flipside the vast majority of companies are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think once Boris clicks his chubby digits, we're back in January 2020. The deed has been done, we're not going back.

However most people will prefer a hybrid, that's a compromise that works for everyone, benefits the environment, cuts down on hours and hours and hours a week/month/year wasted on commuting, no pointless dragging people in from all ends of the country to meet in one place, yet we're not all locking ourselves away each day. We can also do away with the concept of "work your hours" and move towards "do your job". None of my clients give a shit whether I'm in the house at 2pm or down the snooker club, so long as the deadlines are met and the quality is up to scratch.

As for the social side, maybe it's the places I worked when I was office-based but most ex-colleagues were unrelenting fucking dickheads, I'd say easily 80%+. I mean what do I have in common with them beyond walking around on the same bit of carpet for eight hours a day, I don't know you, I don't need to be your mate, the odds of us getting on really well are pretty long. Or maybe it makes me the dickhead, I don't know :D
 
It's the kind of job I personally wouldn't take if you offered me a million quid a year. Fuck covering for that idiot every day and having to pile lie on top of lie on top of lie, all in public. Some things are worth more than money.
 
I'm starting to wonder if even Orwell could make some of this stuff up.
 
As in Kevin. Behave like a fat shithouse, all day every day, and pretend rules don't apply to you.

In which case yes, he's bang on track.
 
I'm with DW about work colleagues, I work with people, I'm civil to them, don't ever feel the need to go down the pub with them, one of my pet hates on job descriptions is the " regular team building, and away days with workmates" eww no thanks, I'll turn up do my job, attend the courses I have to for work, I definitely don't want to be working out how to get tyres across a gap using only a chicken, a bootlace and a catapult in the rain.
The other one that has been mentioned in interviews and I've not looked impressed at is the big deal of we give you an extra free day off on your birthday! Yea great, but you've not noticed my birthday have you?(29th Feb) An extra day off every four years whatever will I do with all the extra time off
 
I wouldn't say I'm friends with anyone I work with, neither do I have anything other than casual relationships with those that I used to. I also get more done at home than in the office. That said i went into the office for a day or 2 a week between Sept-Dec, those days were a nice break up from the monotony and it was good mh wise to have a bit of a laugh and a piss take the like of which you don't get on a Teams call
 
I wouldn't say I'm friends with anyone I work with, neither do I have anything other than casual relationships with those that I used to. I also get more done at home than in the office. That said i went into the office for a day or 2 a week between Sept-Dec, those days were a nice break up from the monotony and it was good mh wise to have a bit of a laugh and a piss take the like of which you don't get on a Teams call
Same, one day a week would be ok (tbf thats pretty much what I've always done).
 
Speaking as someone who's been working from home since 2015 (self-employed), I can say that doing it in a pandemic is totally different to how it was before.

On average I'd been getting out to various offices or co-working spaces, depending on the job, one day a week, with the rest at home. For me it was bliss because I find most offices incredibly distracting and annoying - I can't concentrate outside of having my own separate room to work in, and I can't think I've ever worked in an office where that kind of luxury was for anyone other than the very top of the food chain. I also saved shitloads that otherwise would've gone on commuting, and through tax deductions for whatever I couldn't blag from various clients, which means my home office equipment - computer, monitor, chair, technologically and ergonomically - is far superior than I'd get in most offices. I think we're going to get a pretty substantial DIY+home renovation boom off the back of everyone being stuck at home, too, which will suck up a lot of those savings. I certainly found myself unable to avoid confronting long-term issues (like replacing a damaged floor in my living room) when I was seeing it so much every day.

Of course, seeing and working with people IRL has no digital substitute, but I never felt like I couldn't do that before lockdowns. Same for socialising. I'd still be able to get to the pub at six to see people - being able to head there at lunch and spend all afternoon there beforehand was even better. I love being able to make my hours what I want, and usually settle on 11-7, which fits with my night owl habits more comfortably. And, overall, it's just so much less stressful. Work became a thing that worked for me, as much as I worked for it.

All that is good and well, however, but what I've seen and heard from friends and people on social media are exactly the teething problems that I struggled with when I first made the switch, compounded by the pandemic. Not lease the space issue. If I didn't have a spare bedroom that I could have converted into an office, I don't think I'd be quite so smug about it. Neither if I couldn't afford/wasn't being given equipment that was comfortable and reliable - I spent the first couple of years with just a laptop and it sucked, my back was killing me. It also took a fair bit of time to develop the mental routine of switching between "work" and "home" modes at the end of each day, which is maybe one of the most crucial aspects of all. I had a project for a while where I was working simultaneously with Brits in the morning and Americans in the evening, and even though I was meant to only be working afternoons, when everyone was online at the same time, inevitably I found my hours drifting earlier and later simultaneously as I had colleagues on both sides of the Atlantic pulling on me. Considering how crucial in-person collaboration and comradeship is for people to be able to collectively resist being taken advantage of by bosses, I do worry about whether this might made workplace exploitation even more endemic (especially combined with the ever-growing gig economy).

And then a big issue over everything here is that, as per usual, the debate being kicked off at the political level - and in the media - is divorced from the reality of work in many jobs, where working remotely might only be at best a partial possibility. Reflective of a political and media class which tends to be drawn from high-level services sectors which mostly involve typing into a computer, a task which can be done just as easily in central London as central Mongolia. But at least I think most people recognise that it's a case of flexibility, rather than a binary choice between two extremes, even if it doesn't feel like it when Boris and Sunak talk shite.
 
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