Keir Starmer at it again..

[AndyWolves]

Greens it is then

 

[prawnking]

Voting for a party you have no faith in, to stop another party winning who you find abhorrent is fucking dismal though isnt it?

Where is the hope?

A very simplistic view of party politics. There's more than just your or my definition of hope.

Also, a political party isn't a religion, or your favourite band when you were 16

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

A very simplistic view of party politics. There's more than just your or my definition of hope.

Also, a political party isn't a religion, or your favourite band when you were 16

Is it? A lot of people voted Labour in the last election simply to get the Tories out.

Not sure what you mean with the last sentence either, i have completely lost my support for Labour, if I did vote tribally, i'd be voting for them and defending them blindly forever?

Unless it's a general point, then yes I agree, but i don't see how it applies to my post.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Is it? A lot of people voted Labour in the last election simply to get the Tories out.

Not sure what you mean with the last sentence either, i have completely lost my support for Labour, if I did vote tribally, i'd be voting for them and defending then blindly forever?

Unless it's a general point, then yes I agree, but i don't see how it applies to my post.

Yeah bit of projection going on here. See how people leap to defend Starmer just cos he's on their team.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I’m reading Truss at 10 by Anthony Sheldon which is a great in depth analysis of that particular car crash. He may need to sharpen his pen to write a book on Starmer quite soon.

He's written one about every Prime Minister since Thatcher.

I don't know about people "defending" Starmer (I was lukewarm towards him a year ago and he's been lukewarm as a PM) but it's completely disingenuous to compare him to the likes of Johnson and Truss.

 

[prawnking]

Yeah bit of projection going on here. See how people leap to defend Starmer just cos he's on their team.

Where did I mention Starmer, let alone defend him? If anything, you're the one leaping in to defend one of your 'team' on this thread

 

[prawnking]

Is it? A lot of people voted Labour in the last election simply to get the Tories out.

Not sure what you mean with the last sentence either, i have completely lost my support for Labour, if I did vote tribally, i'd be voting for them and defending them blindly forever?

Unless it's a general point, then yes I agree, but i don't see how it applies to my post.

It depends what you mean by 'hope'. It all sounds a bit Star Wars/comic book to me?

A lot of party politics, and the business of government, is quite functional and unexciting, even though it obviously affects all our lives.

I don't expect my politicians or party leaders to give me Hope like they're Luke Skywalker or the bloke from Dune

 

[ROVERT47]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
'Tina' the wicked witch, spit on her grave, would never have altered her position during her persecution of the working class.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

And you suggested I was simplistic PK?! How patronising.

By hope, i mean progressive policies and arguments, an attempt at changing the narrative regarding immigration, not adding to it.

Perhaps arguing against the idea that people on benefits are "scroungers" and/or lazy which has been pushed at us for a couple of decades now?

Perhaps explaining why international aid is important for trade and diplomacy?

As a nation we have got more racist and selfish since the turn of the century, maybe trying to address that?

They're in power, they have a really strong majority. I was told that they were saying what they needed to say to get into power, but then they'd commit to more progressive centrist/left ideas once they were in power. They havent have they, quite the opposite.

It's negative, it's largely a continuation of Tory policy, it's not hopeful. It's more of the same.

 

[EpsomWolf]

Greens it is then

I mean if anyone is pissed off with the state of Labour and have environmentally sympathetic leanings then I suppose a vote in that direction when there’s absolutely no chance of them forming a government is understandable, but a bit like Reform, a lot of that perceived support would freak out at the prospect of the reality and evaporate when push comes to shove.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Also Labours communication is fucking awful, what do they stand for?

"An active government"

"A leaner and more agile government"

It's meaningless, just corporate speak.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I would vote Labour if the alternative was Tory or Reform and Labour was the best chance to beating either of these. I feel the same about Lib Dems and Greens, they would get my vote.

Although we have just had our registration accepted by the Electoral Commission for a new political party so that might change, particularly for local elections where winning is possible. Don't see much hope locally for small parties/independents winning GE seats.

 

[prawnking]

And you suggested I was simplistic PK?! How patronising.

By hope, i mean progressive policies and arguments, an attempt at changing the narrative regarding immigration, not adding to it.

Perhaps arguing against the idea that people on benefits are "scroungers" and/or lazy which has been pushed at us for a couple of decades now?

Perhaps explaining why international aid is important for trade and diplomacy?

As a nation we have got more racist and selfish since the turn of the century, maybe trying to address that?

They're in power, they have a really strong majority. I was told that they were saying what they needed to say to get into power, but then they'd commit to more progressive centrist/left ideas once they were in power. They havent have they, quite the opposite.

It's negative, it's largely a continuation of Tory policy, it's not hopeful. It's more of the same.

I don't totally disagree, in that I'd prefer Starmer's Labour to be braver and bolder, but I don't believe it's the job of government to morally lecture us all on the progressive ticklist you describe, and crusade to change the face of a resistant nation so bluntly in 5 years! Not when there are other, more pragmatic, fiscal priorities.

 

[prawnking]

I mean if anyone is pissed off with the state of Labour

I can't remember a time where some huge chunk of Labour weren't pissed off at the state of the party, it's the nature of the beast. Always too left, too right, too centrist...part of the reason why the Tories are the 'natural party of government'

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I can't remember a time where some huge chunk of Labour weren't pissed off at the state of the party, it's the nature of the beast. Always too left, too right, too centrist...part of the reason why the Tories are the 'natural party of government'

Currently self-flagellating that they're "no better than the Tories were".

I mean they obviously are. I'd equate it to someone saying Paul Lambert was the same as Dean Saunders, of course he bloody wasn't, don't be an idiot.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Also Labours communication is fucking awful, what do they stand for?

"An active government"

"A leaner and more agile government"

It's meaningless, just corporate speak.

That's what they are.

 

[Templeton Peck]

I don't totally disagree, in that I'd prefer Starmer's Labour to be braver and bolder, but I don't believe it's the job of government to morally lecture us all on the progressive ticklist you describe, and crusade to change the face of a resistant nation so bluntly in 5 years! Not when there are other, more pragmatic, fiscal priorities.

The things EP talks about don't cost any money though? He's just on about the govt using more positive language on immigration and benefits. It's quite a low bar tbf.

 

[prawnking]

If a sizeable chunk of the population is suspicious or negative about immigration (and the associated elements), how are patronising semantics and 'we know best' lectures going to engage anyone??

Rightly or wrongly, immigration is a massive issue and area of concern for many working class voters in areas Labour will be fighting Reform

 

[Tredman]

Personally I’d be happy if the government just shut the fuck up and get on with it. The never ending media rounds are just bullshit.

 

[prawnking]

using more positive language on immigration and benefits.

What's he said on benefits that you'd prefer he said in a more positive way?