Trump

[AndyWolves]

You just have to look at how trump dealt with North Korea - he talked smack to them and exposed them as the insignificant bullies they are. That's much more aligned, I'd imagine, to how most Americans think North Korea should have been dealt with along time ago

 

[Deleted Cyber]

You just have to look at how trump dealt with North Korea - he talked smack to them and exposed them as the insignificant bullies they are. That's much more aligned, I'd imagine, to how most Americans think North Korea should have been dealt with along time ago

Nailed it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54783016

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

If you're a white person, over the age of 30 on an average salary Trump seems to be the only guy who is, or appears to be, looking out for you.

He speaks to you in a way you understand and probably shares some of your views (ignorances) too. He says things that no other politician would and has done things no other politician does to the extent he doesn't come over like a career politician does but someone you can identify with. He's real

Say what, fam?

He's the opposite of real.

 

[AndyWolves]

Say what, fam?

He's the opposite of real.

I know that and you know that.

But compared to an "average" politician he's more relatable to the average Joe. He's the definition of the American dream of working hard to be rich (even though he got it all from daddy)

 

[Paul]

Because Cuban and Venezuelan immigrants are terrified of the word socialism.

And rightly so, had a fairly lengthy chat with a lady from Venezuela once and someone needs to invent a new term , because our idea of socialism and what she experienced are poles apart, scary stuff

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'm not minded to make excuses for people. If you vote for Trump, much like if you voted for Johnson or Farage, you're a piece of shit.

 

[Tony Towner]

Say what, fam?

He's the opposite of real.

What he does, like Farage and Johnson is offer legitimacy to many deeply held unpleasant beliefs. When they are seen as 'one of us', that doesn't mean financially or via upbringing.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Oh aye, he's a racist, so I'm ok to be one too.

Fuck these people.

 

[prawnking]

I'm not minded to make excuses for people. If you vote for Trump, much like if you voted for Johnson or Farage, you're a piece of shit.

I know you're just saying this on a forum, but this plays into the culture wars that all the people you mention thrive on.

Trump is certainly a piece of shit. Calling half the electorate that is over-simplifying why a lot of people can overlook the vile personal characteristics and behaviour of Trump and Johnson and give them big victories.

Corbyn was rejected overwhelmingly by the electorate and you still hear people say he 'won the argument'

What can be done to create consensus and common ground with these voters rather than just insulting them (thus confirming the cliche used against the left that they are patronising elites who 'know better'?)

 

[Sniffer]

Wisconsin about to announce. This could be key....

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I know you're just saying this on a forum, but this plays into the culture wars that all the people you mention thrive on.

Trump is certainly a piece of shit. Calling half the electorate that is over-simplifying why a lot of people can overlook the vile personal characteristics and behaviour of Trump and Johnson and give them big victories.

Corbyn was rejected overwhelmingly by the electorate and you still hear people say he 'won the argument'

What can be done to create consensus and common ground with these voters rather than just insulting them (thus confirming the cliche used against the left that they are patronising elites who 'know better'?)

I don't want to find common ground with people who vote for complete scum, their ideals are way too disparate from mine.

I very much doubt I'm "elite"! I'm just not a massive racist.

 

[Sniffer]

Wisconsin about to announce. This could be key....

...or in half an hour. Biden needs about 80% of the remaining vote so victory for him is doubtful.

 

[prawnking]

And rightly so, had a fairly lengthy chat with a lady from Venezuela once and someone needs to invent a new term , because our idea of socialism and what she experienced are poles apart, scary stuff

There's almost always a big gap between the theory and the practice

I don't want to find common ground with people who vote for complete scum, their ideals are way too disparate from mine.

I very much doubt I'm "elite"! I'm just not a massive racist.

Sure, me neither, but a lot of black voters will have voted for Trump, and a lot of working class people voted for Johnson (and Thatcher!) so how do we reconcile that?

I'm saying people don't always vote based on those issues, and would probably just discount Trump's comments in the same way as they would with a blunt and earthy grandparent

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

But why have you and I got to make the move?

I'd rather those with disgusting views come this way to start with.

 

[prawnking]

I think some people vote for different reasons, politics can be tribal or sometimes it can be as simple as who is going to give you more money in your pay packet.

Left/liberal concerns are getting their arse handed to them time after time both sides of the pond over the past few years. I just think the more divided this culture war gets the less likely it is for that to be reversed any time soon, and we'll be left 'winning the argument' and morally intact but as far from power as we were in the 80s.

I don't have the answers, but my gut says we've got to find some common ground.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Ok, here's my ticket.

"Don't vote for some massive fat blonde cunt who was born into huge privilege and doesn't care about you, oh and he's a racist too".

Should work, you'd think. Except no.

 

[Lycan]

Wisconsin turning blue. Michigan & Pennsylvannia should follow. NYT saying Biden 'likely' to win Georgia as well.

 

[prawnking]

DW, we see it like that, but I saw plenty of ordinary Americans saying he's one of them. He comes across to them as simple and plain, and that resonates. It's populism 101.

The left need to be smarter and broader, otherwise this happens again and again.

The unfortunate fact is that a lot of working people over here and over there can be pretty nationalistic and xenophobic, we need to talk to some of those people rather than just label them (that's not a criticism of you justifiably venting on here btw) .

 

[Tredman]

Ok, here's my ticket.

"Don't vote for some massive fat blonde cunt who was born into huge privilege and doesn't care about you, oh and he's a racist too".

Should work, you'd think. Except no.

Seems I prompted quite a bit of discussion, but DW has summed it up here.
You can come up with all the excuses you want, but if you vote for him (or Johnson to Farage) it’s on you.

 

[Del Woppio]

Wisconsin looks done. 32000 left to count, Biden needs less than half of them