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Pre-season friendly thread

AndyWolves

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Thanks mate, but that's not my point.

I don't mind if someone's doom and gloom or wait and see, I've always preferred people to speak their mind. My issue and my amusement is how widespread and tolerated the former is now based on precious little evidence.

Makes me wonder why so many little Hitlers have run round the forum telling people off these past few years, and why they're silent now?
My own view would be that spreading doom and gloom during our most successful time since Noah was a lad probably was over the top.

That successful time has now passed and doom and gloom has more basis in reality.
 

Deutsch Wolf

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We were better and created chances but it's a stretch to say we played particularly well. Anything was a step up from the first half which was 0/10 on every level.

I haven't seen much evidence of this front foot football that we're supposed to be playing.
 

AndyWolves

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Second half yesterday says it doesn’t at all
First half does though!

Anyway, it's bigger than that. It's sacking our most successful manager in recent history, appointing a new manager, not appearing to back him and expecting it all to somehow be better.

To say negatively isn't justified at the moment I don't think is a fair reflection of the facts.

To say negatively was justified off the back of our 2 best seasons is a different argument, and one I think is much weaker.
 

Tony Towner

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By all accounts we missed a number of decent chances. Nothing new there
 

prawnking

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First half does though!

Anyway, it's bigger than that. It's sacking our most successful manager in recent history, appointing a new manager, not appearing to back him and expecting it all to somehow be better.

To say negatively isn't justified at the moment I don't think is a fair reflection of the facts.

To say negatively was justified off the back of our 2 best seasons is a different argument, and one I think is much weaker.

You say doom and gloom has more 'basis in reality' now, but the actual reality is that we've still got our best players, time to buy new ones and (for the third time) haven't played a competitive game yet.

There's a far more reasonable sample size to criticise, say, January's transfer window or Nuno last season after 15/20 games than to criticise Wolves now. It's mainly doom projection.

You highlight sacking Nuno as the first justification for doom and gloom (despite people denying it's all about Nuno), does that mean Fosun are never allowed to part company with him?

All the 'not appearing to back him' justification is again negative projection that you can only say with confidence when the window shuts??
 

slink

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We were better and created chances but it's a stretch to say we played particularly well. Anything was a step up from the first half which was 0/10 on every level.

I haven't seen much evidence of this front foot football that we're supposed to be playing.

First half was poor, wouldn’t say 0 out of 10 but it wasn’t good. Plenty of first halves like that last season though and we were only behind because of a shocking penalty decision. Sa barely had anything to do. As i said yesterday Bruno was visibly not happy with how we were playing but some of that was caused by the team he picked. I don’t ever want to see that midfield 2 again, RAN is clearly the better option at lwb and the back 3 won’t play together again hopefully if players are back fit/new players signed.

We played well in the second half and it was only the finish that let us down and we were definitely on the front foot. Plenty of times we won the ball back high up and 2 or 3 times it was Hoever/Marcal that were doing it. Raul should have scored twice, Marcal had 2 great chances before one of those that Raul missed, Adama forced their keeper to make a great save and Kilman skied a free header from 7 yards. There was also the phantom penalty.

It was far from perfect but the second half was promising. I would add to that I’m not sold on the high line, high press with these players but i’m willing to give Bruno a chance while still being able to disagree with things I think we shouldn’t be doing like playing that midfield 2.
 

AndyWolves

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You say doom and gloom has more 'basis in reality' now, but the actual reality is that we've still got our best players, time to buy new ones and (for the third time) haven't played a competitive game yet.

There's a far more reasonable sample size to criticise, say, January's transfer window or Nuno last season after 15/20 games than to criticise Wolves now. It's mainly doom projection.

You highlight sacking Nuno as the first justification for doom and gloom (despite people denying it's all about Nuno), does that mean Fosun are never allowed to part company with him?

All the 'not appearing to back him' justification is again negative projection that you can only say with confidence when the window shuts??
The actual reality is that we've sacked our best manager and appointed one with a very small track record.

Nuno actually proved that he could get wolves to play well and finish 7th, that's an actual thing that happened twice in actual reality.

Lage hasn't proved that he's got that capability, he may have but we just don't know. His very limited actual history of managing leads me to doubt that he can. I hope he can, and will be very happy if he does.

The reality is we haven't strengthen from last season bar Trincao coming in, another reality is that we all recognise that Lage hasn't been backed. This may change, it may not - but right now, he has not been backed. If he does then opinions may and probably will change. But reality is, he hasn't been backed yet.

Why can't you understand that people were prepared to give Nuno slack as he'd earned it? He'd delivered the most successful times at wolves for a long time, of course he's going to get more leeway and tolerance than a new manager with little experience. He'd proven that he could do what we wanted a wolves manager to do.

If Fosun had appointed a manager with more pedigree then I'm sure opinions would be different, but they haven't.
 

lemonjelly

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They were bad but changes followed both of those halves that were positive. The 2nd half v Las Palmas we stopped them walking through us and created and scored our own chances. Yesterday, whatever Bruno did/said at HT saw a completely different attitude in the players.
We also saw Bruno scrap his prefered set up of 4 at the back during the Palmas game, so at least we can see he is prepared to alter his way forward.
If I am going overly positive on why we lined up with the Neves/Mout partnership, maybe he had changed something to see if he could get that working and it was clear it wasn't so, that was scrapped at HT as well. Proof will be next Saturday at 2pm though so until then its all guess work on our behalf.

For me, there are obvious concerns with Bruno and his experience, the size of the squad, the way we are funding this summer and of course the massive need for at least 3 new players but there have been positives as well. 2nd half yesterday probably saw us attack more in 45 mins than I had seen in the whole of April and May of last season, just a shame we couldn't finish. So far have seen Bruno is willing to adapt with this squad rather than trying to force the squad to do so, just one more thing left to show he gets it which requires faith in Donck or a new signing and showing there isn't a when fit Joao plays clause (as much as I adore the man he can't start next week)

Apart from the pricing, not overly fussed by what the execs in the background do and say as marketing people always seem to talk utter bollocks (no offence marketing folk of this forum...well maybe a little)
There's a lot to agree with here. The one concern I persistently had about Nuno was his adaptability, especially in game. I did worry about whether he had a plan b or c.
We saw him able to tweak or amend formations between games, and this was effective. However, his ability to influence games, especially offensively was always something I was never convinced about.
I am interested to see how MGW develops this year. I still think there is a proper talent in there, and hope we can use it effectively. His short passing game is really intelligent imo, and if we can harness that, it could significantly help the style Bruno may want to play.
 

prawnking

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The actual reality is that we've sacked our best manager and appointed one with a very small track record.

Nuno actually proved that he could get wolves to play well and finish 7th, that's an actual thing that happened twice in actual reality.

Lage hasn't proved that he's got that capability, he may have but we just don't know. His very limited actual history of managing leads me to doubt that he can. I hope he can, and will be very happy if he does.

The reality is we haven't strengthen from last season bar Trincao coming in, another reality is that we all recognise that Lage hasn't been backed. This may change, it may not - but right now, he has not been backed. If he does then opinions may and probably will change. But reality is, he hasn't been backed yet.

Why can't you understand that people were prepared to give Nuno slack as he'd earned it? He'd delivered the most successful times at wolves for a long time, of course he's going to get more leeway and tolerance than a new manager with little experience. He'd proven that he could do what we wanted a wolves manager to do.

If Fosun had appointed a manager with more pedigree then I'm sure opinions would be different, but they haven't.
I know people get pissy when this is brought up, but that just reads as a Nuno fanboy tirade. There's cutting Nuno slack and then there's cultish behaviour. This idea that he couldn't be questioned or criticised is something that no manager or player at Wolves should be afforded.

Of course Bruno has a limited 'pedigree' as a head coach, I get that, but he actually won the league during that time. Does that not show a capability for success? Does Nuno's successor have to be someone who we can 'prove' can get Wolves back up there again? There are a lot of factors at play that make this a tough gig right now for any manager, one of which is the imbalanced and stale squad that Nuno left, which he would have had a big job to sort out if he'd stayed. Another is Fosun seemingly tightening the purse strings, for whatever reason.

We can't cry over Nuno forever, it ran its course and he's gone. We have to look forward, nothing stands still. I guarantee you even if we'd hired someone with this magical 'pedigree' there'd be something to hang them on because they aren't bloody Nuno
 
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AndyWolves

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I know people get pissy when this is brought up, but that just reads as a Nuno fanboy tirade. There's cutting Nuno slack and then there's cultish behaviour. This idea that he couldn't be questioned or criticised is something that no manager or player at Wolves should be afforded.

Of course Bruno has a limited 'pedigree' as a head coach, I get that, but he actually won the league during that time. Does that not show a capability for success? Does Nuno's successor have to be someone who we can 'prove' can get Wolves back up there again? There are a lot of factors at play that make this a tough gig right now for any manager, one of which is the imbalanced and stale squad that Nuno left, which he would have had a big job to sort out if he'd stayed. Another is Fosun seemingly tightening the purse strings, for whatever reason.

We can't cry over Nuno forever, it ran its course and he's gone. We have to look forward, nothing stands still. I guarantee you even if we'd hired someone with this magical 'pedigree' there'd be something to hang them on because they aren't bloody Nuno
I didn't say he couldn't be questioned, of course he could.

It's expecting folk to view Lages upcoming tenure through the same lens as they viewed Nunos. It just doesn't work for me as Nuno is currently a demonstrably better manager.
 

MARKakaJIM

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I didn't say he couldn't be questioned, of course he could.

It's expecting folk to view Lages upcoming tenure through the same lens as they viewed Nunos. It just doesn't work for me as Nuno is currently a demonstrably better manager.

Care to demonstrate?
 

Elephant Pyjamas

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The penalty/non penalty is shown here, no sign of a push, no idea why he changed his mind.

 

Del Woppio

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Fuck me this last few pages is an absolute car crash.

Look, nobody - literally nobody - wanted Lage. His coronation was an absolute sham. His appointment is a risk.

So is any appointment, and so was keeping Nuno. We'd been found out, and despite trying for a year, couldn't get a revised tune out of his squad. We were sick of hearing the same old shit and problems not being solved, and so, presumably, were the players. Yeah, we could have dragged it out until November, but the writing was long on the wall and wasn't getting scrubbed off. They couldn't even produce a performance for him in his farewell game against United reserves for fucks sake. He was done.

Lage isn't who we wanted, but he's here - and as a title winning, record breaking (good and bad) manager he deserves at the very least to start off with a neutral opinion for fucks sake. The wailing and and hand wringing over preseason friendly performances is pathetic, frankly. Yeah, he hasn't earned credit in the bank yet, but he hasn't earned the bloody bailiffs at the door yet either.

The stick he's got for that first half yesterday - which was fucking shit, but no worse than some of the shit we saw last season - is a bit embarrassing, as is the fact that it's seemingly more of an indicator of our future than the second half...which was was as good as I can remember us looking for ages.

We're not gonna be Man City. We may not even manage to be Leeds. But at least give the geezer a few months of league football before hanging the poor cunt out to dry
 

Kenny

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The penalty/non penalty is shown here, no sign of a push, no idea why he changed his mind.
Can see just as he gets to the point of turning around he puts his hand to his ear, so someone is telling him something that changes his mind
 

Kenny

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Apparently we played Celta again today and won 1-0 (Silva)
 

Elephant Pyjamas

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Can see just as he gets to the point of turning around he puts his hand to his ear, so someone is telling him something that changes his mind
Oh i know, i'm not disputing your theory, just can't see what it is that was seen, it wasn't offside, there wasn't a push, just have no idea what he was told that lead to the penalty being overturned.
 

Kenny

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Oh i know, i'm not disputing your theory, just can't see what it is that was seen, it wasn't offside, there wasn't a push, just have no idea what he was told that lead to the penalty being overturned.
Maybe the 4th official or whoever said, don't think that was handball make something up to overturn it as we don't have VAR to save your ass here
 
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