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Boris at it again and the contest to replace the lying c***

Wolftone said:
From the outside looking in:
No.
I can't see any difference between The Conservatives or Labour. Both stuffed with self serving arseholes.
Very same here, Fine Gael, Fianna Fail, Sinn Fein, The 'Greens' No discernible difference
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I was critiquing the Liz Truss speech and the batshit way she thinks that even after crashing the uk economy she was right and everyone else was to blame for her failure.

My lifetime has shown that the only way that Labour gets elected is to move to towards the centre ground and shroud itself in a straight jacket in order to convince the press and electorate that they can be trusted. 1997 to 2010 showed that change can be instigated given an opportunity and that it is my hope again. Personally I’d like them to be bolder in their pitch to the nation as huge swathes of the population are so desperate to get rid of this shower that they’d take the public with them with a number of policies, green investment being one of them.

Parties aren’t all the same and it’s sad when people think that way. What Gary O’Neil has done with a squad far inferior to the one that Bruno Lage had shows that good leadership and a change of approach can make a difference.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
They're not even on the same page.

It's like if Hwang has a shit game on Sunday and someone said 'he's about the same as Leon Clarke', no he isn't, clearly.

There are no Labour equivalents of 30p Lee, Rees-Mogg, Braverman, Truss etc.
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The Labour Party certainly doesn't have the callous, nasty, unhinged, unashamed bigots that proliferate inside the Tory ranks. But in terms of the difference they will make to ordinary working class people? Not much difference at all. Both parties are out to serve the best interests of their corporate backers and line the pockets of the people who have bankrolled them. In that they are little different. Will the Labour Party do it in the blatant, thieving, corrupt way the Tories have? No. But they will do it all the same.

So if all you're interested in is the optics, Labour will be an improvement. If you're interested in seeing actual, genuine change for the good of society and the good of the people you're going to be sorely disappointed IMO.
 
Wolftone said:
Quite.
But if anyone thinks Labour will do anything to improve the lot of 'ordinary people' they must be mad.
Still give them a go and find out I say.
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Look at how the NHS changed in the uk from 97 onwards to see that the lot of ordinary people can change for the better. In fact go back further in history to see that the trade union movement and the Labour Party did improve the lives of ordinary folk considerably. It’s nonsense that we should all just give up and accept our lot now.

Should we return to thinking this?


The rich man in his castle, The poor man at his gate, God made them, high or lowly, And ordered their estate.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
They are all the same is exactly the argument the conservatives are secretly hoping to ignite in the electorate in hope that people are fucking stupid enough to stick with the devil they know or stay at home as change is perceived as meaningless.

It’s bullshit.
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It may be bullshit, but Starmer isn't doing anywhere near enough to prove otherwise.
 
Sniffer said:
Look at how the NHS changed in the uk from 97 onwards to see that the lot of ordinary people can change for the better. In fact go back further in history to see that the trade union movement and the Labour Party did improve the lives of ordinary folk considerably. It’s nonsense that we should all just give up and accept our lot now.

Should we return to thinking this?


The rich man in his castle, The poor man at his gate, God made them, high or lowly, And ordered their estate.
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This iteration of the Labour Party shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as the one that gave us the Trade Union movement or the NHS. They are not that Labour Party.
 
Dire Wolf said:
This iteration of the Labour Party shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as the one that gave us the Trade Union movement or the NHS. They are not that Labour Party.
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I’ll hopefully still be here to admit that’s the case should they get into power and prove you to be correct. You’re judging them before they’ve even had the chance to govern.
I’ll admit that the current optics aren’t great but very similar things were said prior to 1997.
 
Sniffer said:
I’ll hopefully still be here to admit that’s the case should they get into power and prove you to be correct. You’re judging them before they’ve even had the chance to govern.
I’ll admit that the current optics aren’t great but very similar things were said prior to 1997.
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I'm judging them are their record of ditching almost every progressive policy that was in their manifesto and the proven record they have of cosying up to financial institutions, big businesses, venture capitalists etc etc. They have made blatantly obvious that they are going to look after the existing economic powers not your average member of Unison or NEU. Their rhetoric is what I'm judging them on and its fucking appalling.

If they get in power and suddenly become more left wing that would be the 1st time in living memory that a government has moved left not right once in power. It doesn't happen. If they prove me wrong I will be delighted to eat crow.
 
There have been four Labour administrations in living memory. 1945 they moved left I would argue

Wilson and Blair basically did what they said on the tin.
 
The only way for any party to make real improvements is with time, doubt we'll see much difference in Labour's first term but I doubt they will be afforded the same amount of time the current lot have. Hopefully I'm wrong.
 
I am interested to see how the Murdoch press will swing behind Starmer.

Spent numerous years going deep into the far right of the Tory Party and we know they have to back the winner "Its the Sun wot won it"
So if the Polls remain the same as the election period kicks in they will have to manoeuvre themselves and take a few sharp turns and presume their readership has the memory of a goldfish.
 
Not going to read it because Torygraph etc but I do find it a little concerning that actions in parliament and potentially MPs voting is influenced by threats and potential attacks (whether that the hard right as with Jo Cox or Islamic terrorists)
 
Shamina Begum losing her appeal to return the UK will be killer for Suella and the likes who are trying to get the Islamists running everything argument going. They all expected her to win the appeal today so no doubt a load of articles in the Mail, Telegraph etc have been put in the bin today
 
or just going down the route for the easiest £/$

She will be promoting her new line of trainers at a Trump Rally before the Summer is over
 
Dire Wolf said:
I think she may be having a mental health crisis. She's paranoid and deluded.
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No she knows what shes doing and saying. She's in the history books as the worst PM ever, kicked out after a few weeks by her own party so she's carving out a narrative with right wing factions elsewhere that none of it was her fault. The OBR had nothing to do with her losing her post, she told them to do one when they offered to do a report on her plans. Her plans spooked the market, there was no documents showing how it would all be paid for and the end result was that borrowing rates rose and she'd lost control. She couldn't even control her party in a fracking motion, called in a three line whip, then reversed her decision all in the space of a few hours and her party was in complete chaos with resignations here there and everywhere.
She was totally unfit for office as most on here predicted, shes got where she is in life by saying and doing whatever people wanted from her. Darling of the membership was reported, however I've yet to see any evidence of why that could be as there's nothing to back up her ministerial career beforehand. Photo ops deliberately posing as Thatcher had done 30 years previously is all I can think of .Got made to look a total fool in a press conference with her Russian counterpart having been done up like a kipper. Absolutely useless.
 
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