Boris at it again and the contest to replace the lying c***

[pr0sl0]

This is where the challenge is though

"But although public support exists for rejoining, Britons do not necessarily see the issue as a priority, with just 8% of Britons saying that Britain’s relationship with the EU is one of the most important issues currently facing the country."

I don't see any main party giving such an easy avenue of attack (for farage et al) when most people don't think it's that big of a deal

The thing is, it was never that big of a deal for most people, ever. It was the obsession of a minority within and surrounding the Conservative party (yes there were Lexiteers as well but you could barely fill Molineux with all of them), and it very rarely polled as a major issue of concern for the public as a whole. Even at the height of UKIP, 2013-2016, the referendum was called by Cameron because he wanted to kill off the Eurosceptic right by winning a mandate for membership of the EU for at least another couple of generations.

It was only once the referendum campaigning started that it rose up as an issue of concern, and unsurprisingly once it was finally "done" it also fell rapidly. Much like immigration, it's an issue where media coverage tends to generate the concern rather than the actual facts on the ground. It's hard to remember now, but during the height of the Brexit Wars - 2016-2019 - there was this widespread sense of a deadening fatigue at being forced to give a shit about our relationship with the EU. I doubt many people are going to want to reopen that can of worms with a referendum, but if a major party (sorry, Lib Dems) actually committed to re-entry - or even just a more thorough alignment a la Switzerland or Norway - then I think most people would be broadly fine with it. I don't think it would at all save the Labour party and/or the country, as FBPE obsessives bang on about, but I think the rupture in the Red Wall with Labour is terminal regardless, and they can either accept that and try to win a new argument, or continue this pathetic simpering Farageist cosplay routine.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

I honestly think that Brexit is not an issue that most people care about anymore. My problem is not the EU, but a few that are still whinging about it. It is the self righteousness, the know better than anyone who thinks differently that is the problem.

 

[AndyWolves]

I don't think people care about Brexit, but they care about the impacts of Brexit with necessarily understanding that it's brexit that's caused them

 

[Walshes Wolves]

I don't think people care about Brexit, but they care about the impacts of Brexit with necessarily understanding that it's brexit that's caused them

That is fine and I get that. People are allowed their point of view. I think that a few people blame Brexit for things, that have very little to do with Brexit, but that is my opinion, as you have yours. I don't dislike anyone because they voted remain. I agree with many on here on about 95% of political views.

I don't hate the EU and would admit that Brexit hasn't solved some problems, but at the same time, Brexit was nowhere near as bad as was being made out in 2016.
I really think it is the intransigence of some, that anyone who has a different point of view to them, is stupid and wrong that is unnecessary.

 

[Tony Towner]

That is fine and I get that. People are allowed their point of view. I think that a few people blame Brexit for things, that have very little to do with Brexit, but that is my opinion, as you have yours. I don't dislike anyone because they voted remain. I agree with many on here on about 95% of political views.

I don't hate the EU and would admit that Brexit hasn't solved some problems, but at the same time, Brexit was nowhere near as bad as was being made out in 2016.
I really think it is the intransigence of some, that anyone who has a different point of view to them, is stupid and wrong that is unnecessary.

Name me a success and/or achievement of Brexit? LSE says the cost in the first 2 years was £27bn, so surely there has to be something really tangible to make that worthwhile?

 

[Tredman]

I've got a black passport now

Edit - actually I have 2 as they get full of stamps really quickly these days, proper win that.

 

[Sniffer]

Control of our borders, Parliament being sovereign, economy boosting trade deals with the rest of the world, not as bad as we thought it might be. Keep up Tony

 

[Walshes Wolves]

Name me a success and/or achievement of Brexit? LSE says the cost in the first 2 years was £27bn, so surely there has to be something really tangible to make that worthwhile?

I was waiting for that. A success is not being ruled by something that I can't vote to change their rules. I can write a long list of democratic failures within the EU and a longer list of corruption cases. Us not being part of that is a success.

 

[AndyWolves]

I make no apologies for this but I think anyone who believes Brexit is anything other than bad for the UK is a moron

 

[Sniffer]

How were we ruled by Europe?

 

[Tony Towner]

I was waiting for that. A success is not being ruled by something that I can't vote to change their rules. I can write a long list of democratic failures within the EU and a longer list of corruption cases. Us not being part of that is a success.

I said tangible. What you've come up with is £27bn in 2 years to make you feel better

 

[Del Woppio]

Quite. Being vaguely miffed by EU rules (95% of which have just been carried over) is not a reason

 

[darlowolf64]

I was waiting for that. A success is not being ruled by something that I can't vote to change their rules. I can write a long list of democratic failures within the EU and a longer list of corruption cases. Us not being part of that is a success.

We voted for members of the European parliament.
We were a major player with the power of veto over decisions.
We had a trade deal through block trading and we are now on the outside with reams of red tape to plow through to export.
We created our own Laws (and still do), there was no issue with "sovereignty"
We had, and still have our own border force

 

[Walshes Wolves]

From the article below,

Sovereignty and the Law​

The most important Brexit benefit is sovereignty. The ability of the UK Government to make its own laws is a definite Brexit win. Even if you don’t like the laws that the government is making, now you can vote to remove that government. More importantly, the laws that are being enacted are designed to suit the UK’s population and economy and are not about issues that do not concern the UK, such as the number of acorns that must be fed to an Iberian pig in Spain. (I thought I was just being absurd for effect, but there really are EU regulations about this.)

The alternative to sovereignty is increasingly evident across the EU. Where European voters are turning in frustration to extremist parties, realising that leaving the Eurozone is a practical impossibility. This is a recipe at best for paralysis, at worst for violence.

The downside of sovereignty is that now we need politicians with experience of life outside Westminster, with big-picture ideas and a good grasp of macro and microeconomics. Hopefully, in the forthcoming election, we will get more MPs willing to propose new ideas to improve life in the UK. Too many of our present MPs were, like Ken Clarke, simply ‘looking forward to the day when the Westminster Parliament is just a council chamber in Europe.’ and were more than happy to adopt EU regulations and directives without question.

Part of restoring UK sovereignty includes the restoration of the UK’s Courts which are once again the supreme arbiters of UK laws. You may have thought that was always the case, but courts in the UK had to take into consideration European Court of Justice (ECJ) rulings until January this year, four years after the end of the transition period. When the UK was a member of the EU, the ECJ’s decisions were binding on UK courts, directly impacting UK laws.

However, we aren’t completely out of the ECJ’s clutches because Northern Ireland is still in the single market and must obey EU rules. Even as late as September 2023, the ECJ was able to fine the UK £27.6 million for allowing pleasure boats in Northern Ireland to use ‘red diesel’ intended for fishing boats. Red diesel has a lower fuel duty of only 10.18p per litre instead of 52.95p. Incidentally, the size of the fine was based on the size of the whole UK economy, even though the majority of that value was no longer in the EU. The EU’s backdoor control over Northern Ireland via the Northern Ireland Protocol / Windsor Framework has prevented the UK from taking full advantage of Brexit.

What has Brexit ever done for us? - Briefings For Britain

Brexit has returned sovereignty to the UK - its most important attribute. But it also means we must choose our politicians carefully. They now have control over our laws, money, taxes, trade, transport, farming, fishing, financial services, science and technology, migration, and legislative...

www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk

 

[Del Woppio]

That's an awfully long list of words that say fucking nothing. If it's not directly and incontrovertibly benefitting people, then it's not a fucking benefit. It's unicorns and rainbows that mean the square root of fuck all to people's lives. And that's all there is

 

[Tony Towner]

2 attempts and still nothing tangible. I expect the 3rd to include the banning of straight bananas

 

[pr0sl0]

None of that makes any sense:

1) We were already making our own laws, we had significant influence over the shape of laws "imposed" upon us by the EU, and even after leaving we haven't felt the "benefits" of Brexit because - shock horror - it turns out modern economies rely on standardised rules and regulations to make trade smoother, so unilaterally diverging from EU regulations wholesale would be both pointless and suicidal.
2) "European voters are turning in frustration to extremist parties" - geez, I'm sure glad we voted for Brexit and now don't have to worry about an insurgent far-right party...
3) There are lots of multinational courts that the UK's courts system is beholden to, and not just European ones... it's how countries litigate disagreements without fighting wars, which I think we'll all agree is a pretty good improvement to the pre-1945 system.
4) Case in point, the Good Friday Agreement is an international one, which was designed to end a conflict and recognise and acknowledge the complexities of Irish national identities in a post-Troubles world. Calling it a "backdoor" for the EU to still have control over the UK is just pathetic toddler behaviour. Sorry, once again, the UK exists as but one component of a larger economic, social, cultural, and geopolitical world, and that means having to share your toys.

 

[darlowolf64]

From the article below,

Sovereignty and the Law​

The most important Brexit benefit is sovereignty. The ability of the UK Government to make its own laws is a definite Brexit win. Even if you don’t like the laws that the government is making, now you can vote to remove that government. More importantly, the laws that are being enacted are designed to suit the UK’s population and economy and are not about issues that do not concern the UK, such as the number of acorns that must be fed to an Iberian pig in Spain. (I thought I was just being absurd for effect, but there really are EU regulations about this.)

The alternative to sovereignty is increasingly evident across the EU. Where European voters are turning in frustration to extremist parties, realising that leaving the Eurozone is a practical impossibility. This is a recipe at best for paralysis, at worst for violence.

The downside of sovereignty is that now we need politicians with experience of life outside Westminster, with big-picture ideas and a good grasp of macro and microeconomics. Hopefully, in the forthcoming election, we will get more MPs willing to propose new ideas to improve life in the UK. Too many of our present MPs were, like Ken Clarke, simply ‘looking forward to the day when the Westminster Parliament is just a council chamber in Europe.’ and were more than happy to adopt EU regulations and directives without question.

Part of restoring UK sovereignty includes the restoration of the UK’s Courts which are once again the supreme arbiters of UK laws. You may have thought that was always the case, but courts in the UK had to take into consideration European Court of Justice (ECJ) rulings until January this year, four years after the end of the transition period. When the UK was a member of the EU, the ECJ’s decisions were binding on UK courts, directly impacting UK laws.

However, we aren’t completely out of the ECJ’s clutches because Northern Ireland is still in the single market and must obey EU rules. Even as late as September 2023, the ECJ was able to fine the UK £27.6 million for allowing pleasure boats in Northern Ireland to use ‘red diesel’ intended for fishing boats. Red diesel has a lower fuel duty of only 10.18p per litre instead of 52.95p. Incidentally, the size of the fine was based on the size of the whole UK economy, even though the majority of that value was no longer in the EU. The EU’s backdoor control over Northern Ireland via the Northern Ireland Protocol / Windsor Framework has prevented the UK from taking full advantage of Brexit.

What has Brexit ever done for us? - Briefings For Britain

Brexit has returned sovereignty to the UK - its most important attribute. But it also means we must choose our politicians carefully. They now have control over our laws, money, taxes, trade, transport, farming, fishing, financial services, science and technology, migration, and legislative...

www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk

Quoting a right wing, anti-Europe think tank isn't "giving both side of the argument" which you are so fond of doing. (or telling us we should do)

We joined the European Union on 1st Jan 1973 and the following are just some of the "sovereign laws" passed by the UK Government that have had a positive effect on the lives of workers and citizens of the UK...

• Health and Safety at Work Act 1974:
  This Act is the foundation of health and safety law in the UK, placing duties on employers to ensure employee safety.
  
  
• Housing Act 1974:
  This Act addressed housing issues and provided support for local authorities to manage and improve housing conditions.
  
  
• Housing (Scotland) Act 1974:
  This Act focused on housing in Scotland, addressing specific needs and challenges within the region.
  
  
• Human Rights Act 1998:
  This Act incorporates the European Convention on Human Rights into UK domestic law, providing legal protection for fundamental rights and freedoms.
  
  
• Northern Ireland Act 1998:
  This Act established a devolved assembly in Northern Ireland and played a crucial role in the Good Friday Agreement.
  
  
• Scotland Act 1998:
  This Act created a devolved Scottish Parliament, granting greater autonomy to Scotland.
  
  
• Government of Wales Act 1998:
  This Act established a devolved National Assembly for Wales, granting it certain legislative and policy powers
  
  There have been many others including an update to the H&S Act and Building Regulations acts, all by our Sovereign Parliament and all without interference or objection from the EU

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

I was waiting for that. A success is not being ruled by something that I can't vote to change their rules.

Yes, there are many faults with the way the EU Parliament is set up and run but we weren't ruled by it. We voted to elect MEP's to be there and vote on our behalf. Part of the problem was that we (the UK) get voting for absolute arseholes to represent us who actively hated the EU and didn't bother to actually participate in the votes or the parliamentary debates.

 

[Kenny]

Quoting a right wing, anti-Europe think tank isn't "giving both side of the argument" which you are so fond of doing. (or telling us we should do)

We joined the European Union of 1st Jan 1973 and the following are just some of the "sovereign laws" passed by the UK Government that have had a positive effect on the lives of workers and citizens of the UK...

• Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974:
  This Act is the foundation of health and safety law in the UK, placing duties on employers to ensure employee safety.
  
  
• Housing Act 1974:
  This Act addressed housing issues and provided support for local authorities to manage and improve housing conditions.
  
  
• Housing (Scotland) Act 1974:
  This Act focused on housing in Scotland, addressing specific needs and challenges within the region.
  
  
• Human Rights Act 1998:
  This Act incorporates the European Convention on Human Rights into UK domestic law, providing legal protection for fundamental rights and freedoms.
  
  
• Northern Ireland Act 1998:
  This Act established a devolved assembly in Northern Ireland and played a crucial role in the Good Friday Agreement.
  
  
• Scotland Act 1998:
  This Act created a devolved Scottish Parliament, granting greater autonomy to Scotland.
  
  
• Government of Wales Act 1998:
  This Act established a devolved National Assembly for Wales, granting it certain legislative and policy powers
  
  There have been many others including an update to the H&S Act and Building Regulations acts, all by our Sovereign Parliament and all without interference or objection from the EU
  

Oooooooh get this expert. Had enough of your type, do one...