Coronavirus

[AndyWolves]

It's the governments own data, the risk of having the vaccine is miniscule, but then so is the risk from covid for young people.

TT - You can't just say 550 people under the age of 40 have died, so no. Covid morbidity increases by a factor of 7 times for every decade of someone's age. So everyone above 30 is much more likely to die of covid than the vaccine. I'm talking specifically about young people under 30.

Here is the government slide:

View attachment 4086

That's interesting, thank you. Based on that I'm inclined to agree with you.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Don’t mean shite though, even with locked down borders it will still get in. Vaccinate the world or put up with the lockdown hokey-cokey for years.

But if we are already very immune to something that isn’t very deadly then we will handle it fine.

You cannot vaccinate an entire planet. Certainly not at the required rate to get through everyone before a new mutation comes in.

 

[WolfMan]

Lisa Shaw death: Husband calls for vaccine choice

Lisa Shaw's widower wants people to have the choice of which Covid-19 vaccine they get.

www.google.com

Real world example of a young woman (well, 44 but still) with young children who died after having the vaccine.

As I said presumably they'll all be offered Pfzier so maybe not an issue, but no vaccine is totally safe for 100% of people. If I was a young woman I'd personally still choose to have it based upon the societal benefit, it just seems wrong to coerce people into having it that's all.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

That's interesting, thank you. Based on that I'm inclined to agree with you.

It’s Astra Zeneca in those figures. Nobody of that age group will get Astra Zeneca. So it’s a nonsense.

 

[AndyWolves]

It’s Astra Zeneca in those figures. Nobody of that age group will get Astra Zeneca. So it’s a nonsense.

Yes, that's what I'm agreeing with him about.

I was doubtful AZ was more harmful than Covid but it turns out it is.

 

[Tony Towner]

Yes, that's what I'm agreeing with him about.

I was doubtful AZ was more harmful than Covid but it turns out it is.

but that's not what they are being offered, so therefore cobblers that it's more dangerous than actually getting Covid.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

But they aren’t allowed to have AZ so it doesn’t matter. That research informed that decision.

 

[WolfMan]

but that's not what they are being offered, so therefore cobblers that it's more dangerous than actually getting Covid.

How is it cobblers mate, I'm just asking a question about the morality of coercing people into taking a vaccine that offers more potential harms than benefits.

Again the risks of severe complications from the vaccine for the young are miniscule, as are the risks from the covid, but they do exist:

Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

But European regulators say the benefits of Covid vaccines continue to far outweigh the risks.

www.bbc.co.uk

I'm aware I might be coming across as some sort of anti vaxer and I can assure you I'm not, I've been double jabbed and would encourage everyone to do the same.

This whole issue seems to have led to everyone into taking an absolutist view of everything and nuance is out the window. I've not stated I definitely think this or that, I'm just asking questions like my original one to try and get people's opinions on things to better inform my my view on the subject. Obviously you've made your mind up I'm taking shit and that's that.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

The research you put up was about AZ. The powers that be read it and decreed that nobody under 40 will receive AZ. That’s it.

 

[Sniffer]

Website I got the slide from:

UK Covid: Van-Tam says AstraZeneca vaccine’s risk v benefit is finely balanced for younger people – as it happened

Deputy chief medical officer says benefits for older age groups clear, but adults under 30 should be offered an alternative to AstraZeneca jab

www.theguardian.com

With cases as high as they are now the AZ vaccine is less likely to lead to death than Covid in the under 30s which I think the second slide shows.

 

[Tony Towner]

There isn't a greater chance risk to any group for having the vaccine that they are offered than
the alternative of not having one and that's before you take into account firstly the benefits of you being vaccinated less likely to transmit the disease to others and the impact of Long Covid on the young.

I've always been against the discrimination of the young before they have had the opportunity to be protected, but once they, or any age group has then for me it's their choice as is what they can't do

‘Long Covid’ Will Surge Among Young, England’s Chief Medic Warns

So-called long Covid is set to soar among younger people in England when remaining coronavirus restrictions are lifted, England’s chief medical officer warned.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[WolfMan]

With cases as high as they are now the AZ vaccine is less likely to lead to death than Covid in the under 30s which I think the second slide shows.

Ah ok, I read this stat ages ago and assumed it was the same regardless of the rates of covid in circulation.

 

[Kenny]

"The US has risen the risk of traveling to the UK to its highest level, “very high”, and warned Americans not to travel there due to the pervasiveness of the Delta variant"

Well off to Delta Airlines I go to get a refund/rearrange again.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Ah ok, I read this stat ages ago and assumed it was the same regardless of the rates of covid in circulation.

You should really note the stat that says AZ has zero per cent of chance of harm to an under 30 year old as nobody under 30 will receive AZ. Kinda key point.

 

[AndyWolves]

"The US has risen the risk of traveling to the UK to its highest level, “very high”, and warned Americans not to travel there due to the pervasiveness of the Delta variant"

Well off to Delta Airlines I go to get a refund/rearrange again.

"Delta Airlines"

 

[WolfMan]

I just can't make my mind up. It's inevitable that a very tiny amount of people will end up being negatively affected by having the vaccine who otherwise wouldn't have by covid.

But the whole of society will be much better off if almost 100% have had the vaccine. It's just the coercion bit for me. I suppose if these people feel very strongly about not having it, they don't HAVE to have it, they just wont be able to attend events with large amounts of people. Maybe for them that will be a price worth paying.

To be honest I really don't know why I'm giving it this much thought or working myself up about it so much, it's literally not going to affect me really. I just really don't trust this govt. I am probably just being paranoid, but I've got a weird sense of foreboding about it all.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Somewhat unfortunate that

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I just can't make my mind up. It's inevitable that a very tiny amount of people will end up being negatively affected by having the vaccine who otherwise wouldn't have by covid.

But the whole of society will be much better off if almost 100% have had the vaccine. It's just the coercion bit for me. I suppose if these people feel very strongly about not having it, they don't HAVE to have it, they just wont be able to attend events with large amounts of people. Maybe for them that will be a price worth paying.

To be honest I really don't know why I'm giving it this much thought or working myself up about it so much, it's literally not going to affect me really. I just really don't trust this govt. I am probably just being paranoid, but I've got a weird sense of foreboding about it all.

If they choose not to get protection that is readily and freely available then frankly they need to be allowed to get on with it and live with their decision. Got a guy at work who is super anti vaxxer. His risk.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I should also point out that we all spent our school years being coerced into various innoculations.

 

[WolfMan]

You should really note the stat that says AZ has zero per cent of chance of harm to an under 30 year old as nobody under 30 will receive AZ. Kinda key point.

Mate please read my original question, I wasn't asking about the Oxford vaccine, I was asking has the Pfizer vaccine been shown to carry no risk for young people and then asking if not is it morally right to coerce them into having it. The reason I put the slide up about the Oxford vaccine was just because Andy asked for the source, that's all.