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Keir Starmer at it again..

You should both realise that in 2025, there is a far/hard left, and a far/hard right, and the centre ground which was the majority of the political landscape i grew up with has virtually dissapeared.
In today's Uk and the USA for sure there is simply no middle ground in politics anymore.
And the reforms of this world just latch on to what appears to be the ground, like immigration, that is making the most noise.
I think the internet has a lot to do with this situation, and simply gives a platform to the keyboard warriors, who just grumbled in their beer in the corner back in the "good old days".
Remind you of anyone.
 
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and the centre ground which was the majority of the political views i grew up with has virtually dissapeared.
In today's Uk and the USA for sure there is simply no middle ground in politics anymore.
I don't think that's true, certainly not in terms of voters, i still think the majority lie in the centre, but the hard sides of each shout the loudest.
 
That said, it amazes me that being anti racist, caring about the vulnerable and/or against what's going on in Palestine is seen as "far left", that shows how far the Overton window has shifted.
 
More important than feeding them?
This is part of the problem. The idea that the PM has a big pile of cash and two buckets marked 'Feeding kids' versus 'Defending the country', and every pound he puts in the latter means that you're depriving kids of food.

Its naive, its simplistic, and it cheapens public debate.
 
Oh, so I do answer questions then, you just dont like/agree with my answers?

I'm not abusive to you, I dont patronise you, or tell you you're stupid like you do me, so if we are really talking about how "it's not much of a discussion" perhaps look at how you post, because you do that. Regularly.

And I can see the difference, as I am now saying for the 3rd time, someone who is concerned about Rochdale is far different to someone who is burning down hotels, the former you can engage with, the latter you can't.

And stating the pros of immigration, isn't lecturing, it's an important aspect of the immigration discussion that has not been talked about enough by people in power on the centre/left over this whole century and as had a huge impact on where we are today.

So, what here do you disagree with, what am I misrepresenting?

I haven't once spoken about engaging with thugs, any more than you've sided with or defended exploitation gangs.

Your core idea is to spread sunlight and rainbow stats and 'narratives' (we can all use that word) to some genuine, average people who may be concerned, worried, yes perhaps misinformed and manipulated.

That is entirely out of touch; as an MP why would you go and tell an old lady, and ONE OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS, whose area in the latter part of her lifetime has changed massively; the faces, the voices, the behaviours, that it's all good for her really, when she's telling you it isn't and she's scared and worried?

You listen first; maybe there's a grain of truth there, an opportunity to improve integration, empathise and help her, then if any 'education' is needed, it can come afterwards, and naturally.

That's real life and actual engagement with people. You're tarting it up but what your alternative is is to tell her to suck it up as in fact immigration is a good thing, and if she doesn't agree she's an uneducated racist
 
That said, it amazes me that being anti racist, caring about the vulnerable and/or against what's going on in Palestine is seen as "far left", that shows how far the Overton window has shifted.

Also, I'm sorry but this is ludicrously egotistical.

To give yourself this heart-warming list of virtues, as if it's all so simple and clear. Anyone with a brain or eyes knows that the hard left contains many other elements linked in with all these simple virtues. It's about as convincing as the far right claiming they're just being patriotic and caring about young girls in our towns.

Do you know many people who label themselves racist? Not many, outside a hardcore few. Do people regularly claim to be against the vulnerable? Aside from some IDF nutters and Israeli senior figures I don't think anyone is 'for' what's happening in Gaza either.

All those elements carry far more complexity than you're giving them credit, it's just box-ticking a cause with no thought for pesky reality or other people's views or priorities; a massive hallmark of your end of wherever the Overton window is
 
This is part of the problem. The idea that the PM has a big pile of cash and two buckets marked 'Feeding kids' versus 'Defending the country', and every pound he puts in the latter means that you're depriving kids of food.

Its naive, its simplistic, and it cheapens public debate.
I'm talking about the narratives around spending priorities.
 
Also, I'm sorry but this is ludicrously egotistical.

To give yourself this heart-warming list of virtues, as if it's all so simple and clear. Anyone with a brain or eyes knows that the hard left contains many other elements linked in with all these simple virtues. It's about as convincing as the far right claiming they're just being patriotic and caring about young girls in our towns.

Do you know many people who label themselves racist? Not many, outside a hardcore few. Do people regularly claim to be against the vulnerable? Aside from some IDF nutters and Israeli senior figures I don't think anyone is 'for' what's happening in Gaza either.

All those elements carry far more complexity than you're giving them credit, it's just box-ticking a cause with no thought for pesky reality or other people's views or priorities; a massive hallmark of your end of wherever the Overton window is
You're a beautiful example of the Overton window. You literally can't imagine anything other than what is happening right now.
 
You're a beautiful example of the Overton window. You literally can't imagine anything other than what is happening right now.

Yep, you and EP are a regular pair of John Lennon's...how petty the rest of us mere mortals must look
 
Your core idea is to spread sunlight and rainbow stats and 'narratives' (we can all use that word) to some genuine, average people who may be concerned, worried, yes perhaps misinformed and manipulated.

Why are you sarcastically taking the piss out of me using the word narrative? You suggest people are disingenuous, gaslighting or not posting in good faith all the time, yet you make these strange little snide comments quite often, practice what you preach perhaps?



Anyway, stats are facts, what is wrong with presenting facts? The right don't care for them too much, the riots that they inflamed a few months ago were borne out of untruths about the Southport killer.

It's not my "core idea" it's merely trying to address the narrative that immigration is so awful for this country, and that narrative has been pushed hard and far by the likes of Reform, Paul Golding and Tommy Robinson for quite some time now, with so little kickback!

The Tories and now Labour have been happy with Immigration year on year to aid the economy, but they don't dare say that publicly, why? If they did, perhaps we'd be in a much better state. They are happy enough to tell us that taxing rich people is bad for the economy.

Likewise this idea that austerity was a "good" thing for the economy and the people, Labour did nothing to argue that it wasn't, just sat there and voted with it or abstained, sickening. Where was the counter argument? Where was the actual opposition?

That is entirely out of touch; as an MP why would you go and tell an old lady, and ONE OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS, whose area in the latter part of her lifetime has changed massively; the faces, the voices, the behaviours, that it's all good for her really, when she's telling you it isn't and she's scared and worried?

Why is an elderly constituent scared of voices, faces and behaviours? Have you thought about that?

Is it because of the narrative she has been presented with for decades?

A child doesn't come out of the womb feeling scared of a black voice, a brown face or a different voice to their parents, people become that way because of what they are presented with, and the total lack of argument against that kind of language, mindset and narrative is exactly why we find ourselves in a country that is more and more racist every day. We've enabled it, terms like "woke" to describe someone who flinches at racist or sexist terms add to this day by day.

You listen first; maybe there's a grain of truth there, an opportunity to improve integration, empathise and help her, then if any 'education' is needed, it can come afterwards, and naturally.

Of course you do, and it's from listening to my friends with views about immigrants that i deeply disagree with, that i have learned how little they have been presented with how good immigration is for society, for our culture, for the economy, how they think that minorities are far more representative of the UK population than they are, or how they are simultaneously taking our jobs AND benefit scroungers.

How they don't see the hypocrisy of people emigrating to Spain and living in areas that are purely British and not bothering to learn the language is no different to areas of Birmingham or Coventry, or Leicester here.

How they don't understand the difference between an asylum seeker, an immigrant or an illegal immigrant. Why has that happened? They're not stupid people? They just haven't been presented with the facts in a way that is as easily digestible to them as it is if it's presented by Farage or any other right winger that speaks passionately and confidently.

That's real life and actual engagement with people. You're tarting it up but what your alternative is is to tell her to suck it up as in fact immigration is a good thing, and if she doesn't agree she's an uneducated racist

So in this hypothetical situation you have decided what i have concluded on someone hypothetically?

Ironically you regularly call me hard left, or uneducated/stupid, an anti semite, a cunt etc, you are exactly what you accuse me of being.
 
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Also, I'm sorry but this is ludicrously egotistical.

To give yourself this heart-warming list of virtues, as if it's all so simple and clear. Anyone with a brain or eyes knows that the hard left contains many other elements linked in with all these simple virtues. It's about as convincing as the far right claiming they're just being patriotic and caring about young girls in our towns.

Do you know many people who label themselves racist? Not many, outside a hardcore few. Do people regularly claim to be against the vulnerable? Aside from some IDF nutters and Israeli senior figures I don't think anyone is 'for' what's happening in Gaza either.

All those elements carry far more complexity than you're giving them credit, it's just box-ticking a cause with no thought for pesky reality or other people's views or priorities; a massive hallmark of your end of wherever the Overton window is

It's hilarious how many sweeping generalisations you make........whilst telling me that i make sweeping generalisations.

Of course people don't label themselves as racist or against the vulnerable, but some people's actions clearly are.
 
Martin Lewis

Reports Rachel Reeves will announce a cut to the cash ISA limit at her 15 July Mansion House speech. If true, I think it's a mistake. I doubt it'll substantially nudge people to invest not save; said to be the aim.

This isn't nudge economics, its piss people off economics.

Currently you can put £20,000 in tax-free ISAs, whether cash (savings) ISAs, shares (investments) ISAs or the smaller types. Its said the reduction'd only be for cash ISAs, so people can still invest the same tax free.

[NB At this point I should note, it is v likely to only impact future ISA limits (though whether the cut would start this tax year is a big question) so those with money already in cash ISAs shouldn't panic]

My suspicion is that for many who use cash ISAs, it will just result in many having to pay more tax on their relatively paltry savings interest, not have an epiphany and think "oooh i'll just fill up the remainder of my ISA allowance with investments instead".

Now I should note, I am in favour of encouraging people to invest in the UK. It's good for individuals over the longer term and for the economy, especially if a way is found to encourage people to invest in UK firms.

Yet this isn't the route to do that. I'll be disappointed if the Chancellor chose to listen to the big investment firms in the City, and shut down many building societies and consumer groups who've said its not a good route.

Instead lets start a conversation about how we encourage investments - even possible intervention when people save to explain other options. We need to educate, provide better 1-on-1 easy guidance, and start to change the way people think about risk.

But lets use the carrot not a stick.
 

I actually hate myself for voting for these cunts
I haven't got that far yet. I mean, in comparison the the previous repeat tory sit shows, This lot are not as blatantly corrupt, or as contemptuous of the populace.
That is not to say I am happy with everything they have done, far from it.
Instead of regular rage, under this government i experience bouts of sadness, alongside occasional bouts of hope.
 
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