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Man Utd 1-0 Wolves: Verdict thread

It's a shame that the two people who could take any kind of blame for that goal (Kilman and RAN) couldn't really use tiredness as an excuse. However, having the ball keep coming back at them constantly was bound to end up in a mistake being made somewhere. It's just a shame they got a jammy deflection to punish it. I'd be less annoyed if Rashford had just fizzed it into either corner unaided.
 
We weren’t winning at any point, we were undone by tiredness and a long punt forward that our otherwise excellent defenders failed to deal with against one of the best players in the world.

We don’t, and never have, played with 2 banks of four and thankfully Rafa is not our manager to inflict 1980’s tactics on us. This sort of comment is usually accompanied by ‘gerrit forward’ which I thought we’d consigned to the bin for a good year or two now.

I think Nuno dropped a bollock taking Vitinha off, we lost all control once that happened as Pod was dreadful.

It’s not as you say us getting smashed.

Such a shame as we looked totally in control up to that point.
Apologies Johnny my bad the two banks of four was a footballing metaphor to stress that we should have kept our defensive shape which had served us well for the previous 90 odd minutes

at no point did it come however with the suggestion that we gerrit forward as you put it as equally know and fully understand who our manager is and our style of play

The main point was/ is our inability when we have points in the bag to
Manage the last couple of minutes. God forbid if it weren’t for Spurs inept performance on Sunday we even contrived to give away a needless corner right at the death

So irrespective of the many situations we have faced, this is one that we need to address as it has been a trend since lockdown, that’s my opinion
Overall as said in my opening comment I am proud of how they equipped themselves last night and your right about Vitinha he should have stayed on with otasowe to add some legs in midfield coming on in the last 15 mins
 
Didn’t get to see the whole game due to a family birthday, but there seems to be a lot of angst when it feels like there should be a lot of excitement about how our younger cubs more than matched a strong United team - sounds like Vitinha, KJH, RAN and Max had good games, and a draw would have been a fair result.

The future looks bright!
 
Last minute goals happen because the game is stretched and players are tired. I’m sure chelsea fans said the same thing when we scored against them, along with fans of all our other late winners and equalisers.
 
Didn’t get to see the whole game due to a family birthday, but there seems to be a lot of angst when it feels like there should be a lot of excitement about how our younger cubs more than matched a strong United team - sounds like Vitinha, KJH, RAN and Max had good games, and a draw would have been a fair result.

The future looks bright!
I really thought Max was excellent - he’s a superb player for our system.

Hoever was really good too, Semedo will have real competition in the near future.

RAN and Vitinha showed promise, but need more games to get to the same level as the rest of the side.

we are looking good for next season though, it’s exciting times!
 
Absolutely, they are more than valid and contributory factors. The frustration is that it’s becoming tedious.
The singular common root cause has been game management
Last nights result had no influence upon the results at Sheffield Utd, Burnley last season and more recently Newcastle, Villa, and possibly others where we have not managed the game out in the last 5 mins
With less than two minutes to go we stopped doing what we had done for over 90 minutes which was defending as a unit and got caught to far up the field chasing the game and a spannered ball over the top was not dealt with.
If tired legs was a factor then surely we should have just had two banks of four behind the ball to close the game out and taken a creditable draw for our efforts. That for me is game management, we snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory again were a great defensive performance where we made Man U look bang average now look like they had hammered us and eventually broke us down, which is far from the truth
Your broader point re game management in some of those you mention is a fair one - normally the Donck/Neves/Moutinho sub to add a 3rd midfielder and sitting too deep. I don't think it's valid in the last 2 examples though.

In the Villa game, although not playing well against 10 men we were trying to win the game and conceded due to the stupidity of one player - no management or mindset issues there.

Last night I do think it's tiredness, both mental and physical. There's an argument around the subs being incorrect, but Vitinha and Neto off for Podence and Silva aren't in themselves negative moves.

Most criticism seems to be around not making a 3rd and taking Traore off for Otasowie, but that would be closer to the type of change which did cost points in the other games you mentioned. Even for the goal we weren't really opened up, despite Kilman and RAN's positioning, it's unlikely Rashford scores from there without luck or an error. The shot itself would have been straight at Rui
 
I said this against Spurs that we are one decent pass from scoring a fair few goals with these forward players, again tonight massively guilty in not playing the right ball, we arent that fair away from having a very very good side. Last night upto the 70th minute we cause Utd so many problems but couldnt find the link.

A striker in the mold of Raul is essential in January that is all for me, dont think we need anything else as the lads we have are for me developing very well.. This team will have to consolidate mid table this season and have a few more of these results, however next season I think we can go for a top 6 place or more again.
 
Best performance in a good while.
Started it seemed to make better links between the midfield and the attackers. Love Neto and Podence but after an encouraging 1st half Traore became more diluted. Whilst he's come on a lot thanks to Nuno, his final ball still lacks quality and frequently comes over to an empty box if it gets past the patiently waiting defender just in front of the near post.
I think we have a cracking defence and midfield is OK.
Got to stop Neves continually shovelling it sideways. So many games end up with 650 - 700 passes... and 2 shots on target, or stats like that.

Hope everyone is having as good a time as you can in these strange times. Good luck.
 
Traore for me is more dangerous cutting in and driving through the centre, a couple of times yesterday cutting onto his left produced very poor left footed strikes, maybe try him more left hand side to cut in on his right..
 
I've been happy with our progress the last couple of games but we have to be honest; December has seen a poor points return and we need to be looking at three points from Brighton.

They're a poor home side, we have a few days rest so I hope Nuno can find the right combination and we can start pushing on. I don't want us getting cut off too much from the top 9.
 
Agree (yet again) on the poor points haul, but that's not the whole picture is it ? We're not poor in the Baggies, Blades mould.
You need to follow the word of George Michael, You got to have faith
 
I've been happy with our progress the last couple of games but we have to be honest; December has seen a poor points return and we need to be looking at three points from Brighton.

They're a poor home side, we have a few days rest so I hope Nuno can find the right combination and we can start pushing on. I don't want us getting cut off too much from the top 9.
Absolutely. I'm enjoying the way we've played last couple but its massively important now to start winning games and getting these (minor mistakes especially in the forward areas) correct. Brighton away is a must win for me as the ones below us have caught up quickly in recent weeks.
 
And you really like him - that’s what football is about, opinions? Right?

And I happen to disagree with your opinion, if that’s ok?

I think Podence was anonymous tonight and I think he is a lot of the time. I think he gives the ball away too much, isn’t anywhere near clinical enough in front of goal and tries the impossible far too often. Looks good when it works though, but all too rarely.

We have struggled a little this season and could do without him going missing for massive periods in every game he plays in.
This. I texted the Drummer last night wondering if anyone knew Podence was actually on the pitch! Long time since I've seen anyone come into a game and watch their presence diminish.
 
Agree (yet again) on the poor points haul, but that's not the whole picture is it ? We're not poor in the Baggies, Blades mould.
You need to follow the word of George Michael, You got to have faith
There's faith and then low expectations. Fosun won't have that, Nuno won't and neither should we.

I wouldn't expect us even to be mentioned in the same breath as WBA. They're no comforting benchmark. They've just come up with an unconvincing side and little investment. We've had consecutive 7th place finishes and a great season in Europe.

I'm not giving us targets, but we still need progress on the pitch to be allied to getting points, same as every other club in the league.

It's not negative to have standards and expectations, not if we have any chance of becoming the elite club Fosun want us to be
 
Some national Journalists namely Miguel Delaney who’s a sanctimonious prick at the best of times basically saying it was a deserved win against Mourinho style tactics. Basically being accused of anti football tactics.
Wouldnt lose any sleep over his thoughts, hear him regular on the radio and you are right he is sanctimonious at the best of times, thinks he is the next Tim Vickery when in fact his knowledge is no greater then most people on here.

As it is, we just ran out of gas, we had no outlet ball in the last 20 minutes as Traore was knackered plus I think Podence got a knock in the first couple of minutes after he came on which made him a passenger and Silva doesnt have the nous yet to buy a free kick to relieve the pressure, plus the two wing backs who were excellant were showing signs of cramp in the last 10 minutes and couldnt get up in support.

(Also the late kick off meant it was past their usual bedtime for most of the kids)
 
Found that performance to be a strange mix of the solid reliability of old and at times incredible frustration.

Was unsure of the choice of formation given the available personnel but shuffling the back three over to avoid having Saiss or Kilman on their weak side proved to be a wise move. Those three along with the two young wingbacks were generally solid, only really that one chance at the back stick which Fernandes poked right at Patricio comes to mind as a clear chance.

First half I thought the midfield had a good balance, Neves and Moutinho did their typical screening job and pulled out when fullbacks advanced against them to prevent overloads. Seemed to me that Vitinha helped in those situations by dropping deeper to plug the gap left by whichever of his peers had pulled wide, that gave Wolves a better chance of collecting the second ball if it was crossed in and he also had the composure to take a touch in those situations and look to retain possession rather than merely clear his lines.

Wasn't a great deal for either Traore or Neto to work with in the first period but both did their bit to keep United's back like honest. Two good openings in quick succession for Neto just before the break and he fluffed both, think a sloppy cutback inside killed both moves. First one just slowed it down too much and have AWB chance to shuffle across to cover Traore's run, then a poor scuffed pass from Neto was cut out without too much effort. Second one he tried a similar move to cut back into his left foot but again it was a bit sloppy and so he got closed down and lost the ball.

Second half started in a similar vein but soon began to unravel with the substitutions. Felt the removal of Vitinha was a bit odd, not from a performance POV as he wasn't outstanding but given the minutes in some of the players legs he seemed an obvious one to leave out for 90mins as long as he wasn't having a shocker. Podence had little impact in his place bar one combination with RAN down the left hand side, which again was squandered like Neto's breaks in the first half as he tried to pull a ball back to someone about 25 yards behind him. Felt he let down the midfielders behind him both with and without the ball, was too advanced too often so wasn't available for an easier pass or to attempt to cover Pogba's increasing advances, nor was he so advanced to push onto Matic and prevent him starting attacks, just sat in no man's land affecting nothing.

Felt like Fabio gave it a go but looked like a boy against men, not quick enough to trouble Bailly down that side nor strong enough to hold off Maguire or Matic when he probed elsewhere. Did at least put the yards in and track people back down his side when required.

Ultimately this is where the frustration is for me, you can see a lot of good things in this side but equally you can see the same failings repeatedly that hold them back from pushing on to being even better. They just don't force the issue and take advantage when they get these half openings. The players have the ability to do what's required but it's almost like there's a bit it a mental block, the mentality isn't quite there to really believe in themselves and properly put teams to the sword when the opportunity arises.

I think a lot of it boils down to risk aversion, too often the safe option is taken unnecessarily and opportunity wasted as a result. In the match thread I flagged a situation where Neto strolled straight back into a net for which Traore had just slipped. He had better choices at the time, he could have laid it back in to Traore's path to run at United centrally or played a first time pass out to Hoever who was ahead of both of them but for whatever reason he took the safe option to play the way he was facing, running back into a crowded area and ultimately playing the ball back to Wolves' defence.

Similar with the two breaks first half and Podence is the second. They're half way to an opening advancing on United's backline but they don't really go all out to commit a defender into a challenge or get beyond them, they cut back to relative safety and look to pass responsibility. Also, in contrast to watching Leeds directly before the game, the lack of commitment from team mates to get up in support in those situations is alarming. Neto only had Traore in support for the first break, no-one for the second, Podence had Traore the complete opposite side of the box and everyone else at least 20 yards behind, Ait-Nouri got in once and only had Silva striving to get in the box as a target.

It's something made all the more difficult by how deep the team generally plays though, coupled with the focus to make almost every turnover of possession instantly into a counter attack. It seems incredibly rare at times to see Wolves be content with winning the ball back and just maintaining possession for a while, passing the ball around and allowing themselves to reset. This is where another big annoyance of mine rears it's head, the lack of composure on the ball in the middle of the park. Players like Neves and Moutinho should be controlling the tempo of games, they should be players that all their team mates look to as an out ball, someone that can bail them out under pressure and hold onto it. Too often they're just hooking things over their shoulders of swinging it down the line when it's laid inside to them, players it their ilk should be doing a lot more than simply clearing the decks more often than not. Perhaps if they were more settled and acted as the calming influence they should be then it would give more opportunity to shift the entire team up the pitch with sustained possession and get more players into threatening positions.

That perhaps seems an overly critical view following a generally valiant effort against one of the league's biggest sides but these short comings don't half annoy me. It's not like this is a squad of cloggers battling away under someone of Allardyce's ilk, they're better than that, they should be thinking and footballing their way to success not just battling and scrapping for it.
That all reads well Mark!
Glad to see your observations and writing haven't diminished.
 
Yes I like him and you are correct it is about opinions but when your opinion is the opposite of the majority of other peoples do you not think you ought to rethink it , rather than copy and paste you same condemnatory post every game ?
If you go into something with the view it's going to be shit, then you can guarantee it will be
No. Are you nuts?
You're actually saying that if someone has an opinion but it turns out to run counter to the majority, then they must hurry back inside and revise their opinion?
That way lies madness!
 
Some good opinions! I woke up this morning massively disappointed in the result, but have taken heart in the performance. Probably like most of the players did!
I think the basis is there for a very strong team for next season. This season will be a struggle to be fair. We won't get relegated, but currently we are one or 2 losses away from being dragged towards the dog fight. Brighton is a massive game for me. Yes, we always struggle against them, but we have to get three points i feel or it will start knocking the confidence of the team, even though they know their performances have been really good.

One thing that might help us hugely is the talk of having a break in the season. I think this is almost certainly going to happen. I'd imagine Nuno, if he's religious, will be praying 10 times a day for!

On opinions. You have to have them, and they don't need to be the same as yours surely? It's what makes a discussion right? At least on here it's fairly balanced. Twitter/Instagram/FB is absolutely toxic, and i'm surprised Wolves don't shut their accounts down.
 
On Traore. I'm massively for the guy. Even when he's not doing anything he's drawing defenders. I agree his end product is shite, but i'm sure it's in him to improve. The 60 yard run he did last night from by our box to their box is what sets him apart. No one could even keep up with him. If Neto had have made that ball to him we'd could have been calling him a hero!
He reminds me of Forrest Gump when he played American football. You have to have a big sign up telling him to stop or go. Maybe Nuno needs to get some well placed signs up..lol
Seriously though. Traore in the middle roaming free behind the front 2 is deadly, if only we used him that way.
 
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