UKIP and Similar Watch

[Deutsch Wolf]

Seems he's whining about the BBC (allegedly) saying he's got "blood on his hands".

Tell you what Nige, you can sue me if you like. You do have blood on your hands. Happy to back that up.

 

[Langers]

A twitter hashtag the other day was #beatlesbrexitsongs

My favourite was a picture of Nige accompanied by the caption 'The Wrong and Whining Toad'.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

Brilliant :icon_lol:

 

[Jolemai]

UKIP collapses in Thurrock after all seventeen councillors quit to form Thurrock Independents:

http://www.yourthurrock.com/2018/01/26/breaking-17-ukip-councillors-leave-form-new-party/

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

UKIP is effectively dead now. It will be a political irrelevance. Shame that it got the opportunity to fuck things up for the rest of us before it shuffled off the mortal political coil.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

UKIP is effectively dead now. It will be a political irrelevance. Shame that it got the opportunity to $#@! things up for the rest of us before it shuffled off the mortal political coil.

UKIP is effectively dead now. It will be a political irrelevance. Shame that it got the opportunity to $#@! things up for the rest of us before it shuffled off the mortal political coil.

Well in truth if the Tory party had listened to half its membership in the early 90's UKIP would probably not have exisited. The fact the country continued down a path for over 20 years where it was often diametrically opposed to its EU partners ( The Euro, Schenghen, The kilometere, The Kilogram). To many the EU was still patatable until 2004 when a significant number of former Eastern Bloc countries joined and the dynamic was changed forever as was the average wage of members states. That led to a significant shift in numbers coming from theose countries to this country and gave UKIP another gong to bang. Post 2004 all the UKIP fears appeared to be coming true and it is no coinicidence that they gained popularity even if they were a complete one trick pony. UKIPs rise can be blamed on both Conservative and Labour governments for failing to understand and in several cases failing to address the concerns of a significant number of Britains over Europe. If there was to be a Leave referendum,then 2004-2007 would have been the right time. I know its completely hypothetical and I can prove nothing but I truly believe remain woukd have won the day then. The upshot would have been that the warning shot would have been fired across the EU bows and maybe, just maybe have tempered the ambition that led to the "federal states of Europe" claims on which UKIP did gain a groundswell of support. History will show, I believe that there were a number of opportiunities to clip UKIP in the bud but successive governments failed to properly assess the mood of the country and failed to assess the direction the EU was going. Add to that a recession and a weak prime minister in Cameron who agreed a binary referendum without any plans or foundation for what would happen if he lost, and you end up with the shit storm we have now. I say this as a brexiter. Its a fucking mess. It was always going to be given the backlog or catalogue of missed opportunities , in my view. But just because its a bit bloody tricky doesnt mean they can weasel out of it.

 

[Tredman]

Well in truth if the Tory party had listened to half its membership in the early 90's UKIP would probably not have exisited. The fact the country continued down a path for over 20 years where it was often diametrically opposed to its EU partners ( The Euro, Schenghen, The kilometere, The Kilogram). To many the EU was still patatable until 2004 when a significant number of former Eastern Bloc countries joined and the dynamic was changed forever as was the average wage of members states. That led to a significant shift in numbers coming from theose countries to this country and gave UKIP another gong to bang. Post 2004 all the UKIP fears appeared to be coming true and it is no coinicidence that they gained popularity even if they were a complete one trick pony. UKIPs rise can be blamed on both Conservative and Labour governments for failing to understand and in several cases failing to address the concerns of a significant number of Britains over Europe. If there was to be a Leave referendum,then 2004-2007 would have been the right time. I know its completely hypothetical and I can prove nothing but I truly believe remain woukd have won the day then. The upshot would have been that the warning shot would have been fired across the EU bows and maybe, just maybe have tempered the ambition that led to the "federal states of Europe" claims on which UKIP did gain a groundswell of support. History will show, I believe that there were a number of opportiunities to clip UKIP in the bud but successive governments failed to properly assess the mood of the country and failed to assess the direction the EU was going. Add to that a recession and a weak prime minister in Cameron who agreed a binary referendum without any plans or foundation for what would happen if he lost, and you end up with the shit storm we have now. I say this as a brexiter. Its a fucking mess. It was always going to be given the backlog or catalogue of missed opportunities , in my view. But just because its a bit bloody tricky doesnt mean they can weasel out of it.

The failure, to me, was that successive governments only pandered to (and encouraged later on) a growing sense of xenophobia - they failed at governing and found a convenient person to blame, the forriner. Perhaps the people shouldn't have been so naive and frankly stupid enough to believe this, but there you go.

And as for the kilogram, lolz, i'm 40 this year and the lb and stone mean jack to me.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

The failure, to me, was that successive governments only pandered to (and encouraged later on) a growing sense of xenophobia - they failed at governing and found a convenient person to blame, the forriner. Perhaps the people shouldn't have been so naive and frankly stupid enough to believe this, but there you go.

And as for the kilogram, lolz, i'm 40 this year and the lb and stone mean jack to me.

I agree for what its worth and also know that hindsight is a great gift but if you get a spot and keep picking it eventually you get an infection and that infection needs three times the treatment that would have been needed to properly address the spot in the first place.I am a over a decade older than you and still measure in feet and inches ( fortunately I can covert) but have only recently started saying my weight in kilos - mainly because it sounds better! ( 1m 85 and 107 kg, 6ft 1, 16stone 12lb)

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Metrication has been government policy since the 1960s and had been around for centuries. It would have happened regardless of whether we were in the EEC/EU.

UKIP are dead.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Metrication has been government policy since the 1960s and had been around for centuries. It would have happened regardless of whether we were in the EEC/EU.

UKIP are dead.

As is our membership of the EU. The point is that a series of significant multi government failings has led us to the place we are now. Talk about digging yourself a deeper hole. If you get a spot that itches you treat it, not pick it. If you keep picking it you get an infection. Once you have an infection it takes 3 or 4 times the effort to treat it than the treatment for the original spot. My view is that after Maastrict, after the rejection of the Euro and Schenghen it was more a matter of when the UK left the EU not if - divorce was inevitable as there were two different paths that did not converge.

 

[Tony Towner]

Even if they believed in it, which neither did, Major and Cameron would have ripped the Tory Party apart if they had taken a strong anti Europe position, their Parliamentary majorities weren't strong enough to survive it. Which means you would have to go back to Thatcher to have a more anti European stance, which short of pulling us out she couldn't really gave had a more hard line anti European policy. The only way the Tory Party could have avoided the rise of UKIP was in destroying itself.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

As is our membership of the EU.

We'll see. Even if we leave I expect we will seek to rejoin in the next 10-15 years when the next generation get their hands on the levers of power.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

We'll see. Even if we leave I expect we will seek to rejoin in the next 10-15 years when the next generation get their hands on the levers of power.

That could happen. However what the UK may rejoin in 20 years time would be a different animal with a different focus and direction to the current iteration. In my view a country needed to do this if they were at odds with ther members with reagrd to the thinking. We were so we had to. It was ever thus.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Even if they believed in it, which neither did, Major and Cameron would have ripped the Tory Party apart if they had taken a strong anti Europe position, their Parliamentary majorities weren't strong enough to survive it. Which means you would have to go back to Thatcher to have a more anti European stance, which short of pulling us out she couldn't really gave had a more hard line anti European policy. The only way the Tory Party could have avoided the rise of UKIP was in destroying itself.

Thats correct. So the interests of the individual and desire for powerwere put ahead of the interest of the nation. You can surely see why I have little surprise regarding the current mess. Self interested Tories and labour burying its head in the sand! Whatever next!

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

But this was always going to be the problem with leaving the EU, particularly when you had a nice six year snapshot of Cameron's Government to use as evidence (and with plenty to suggest that the lunatic fringe would take greater control of the party if he left). You should have known that if we were going our own way, you were entirely entrusting them to sort it out. They were locked into power until 2020 barring something enormous happening. They're now at least theoretically locked in until 2022.

I went through around nine months of wanting Wolves to sack Kenny Jackett as the football and results were dire, and as I couldn't see any way that he was ever going to progress us, in the long term this was an untenable situation. If you'd said to me during those nine months that I could only have Dean Saunders or Glenn Hoddle to replace him then I'd have stuck with what we had as the alternative would obviously have been worse on every level. It's no good saying "well we could sack those pair at a later date", the damage would already have been done by then. Even if/when the Tories get chucked out, it's going to take decades to undo all the mess they've created.

I cannot fathom why anyone who isn't a swivel-eyed loon would ever trust Eurosceptic Tory MPs and the brains trust behind such people to sort out a strategy for negotiating with and departing from the EU. That's a fucking crazy situation to put yourself into.

In that context UKIP were always a complete irrelevance as they have zero Parliamentary representation, not that they have any bright ideas anyway.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I cannot fathom why anyone who isn't a swivel-eyed loon would ever trust Eurosceptic Tory MPs and the brains trust behind such people to sort out a strategy for negotiating with and departing from the EU. That's a $#@!ing crazy situation to put yourself into.

Yet 53% did. The question therefore is the bigger picture. History should look at ALL the elements of the previous 20 years leading up to the point of the referendum. Never should power come over the interests of the nation. The country is currently getting what it deserves for 20 years of head burying and hoping the EU issue woulkd go away. It didnt. It got worse. It got more air time. It became an issue . It became a slogan and UKIP , one trick pony , rode that wave very successfully. Nothing can change where we now find ourselves. I am not surprised its a mess. I am surprised at how big a mess it is but that is because its the 2 steps forward 3 steps back approach we are taking. There is no quick fix to this. Lets remain......... Not going to happen , there would be anarchy and there would be no trust in the government or the british economy. You thought the pound took a hit before. No this is going to have to run its course, a course set up by Thatcher, ignored by Major, dismissed by Blair, aknowledged by Cameron but not believed and implemented by the weakest Leader in of these in Theresa May. The best thing that could happen~ (an option to call them out) is for Johnson Gove and Rees Mogg to get full control. They could then either prove the whole country wrong and make a cracking success of brexit or utterly fuck it up and ensure an earlier election where this time voters may ensure they stay in opposition for a long while.

 

[Kenny]

The best thing that could happen is for Johnson Gove and Rees Mogg to get full control.

Are you sure you meant to use "The Best Thing" at the start of that??

 

[Johnny75]

The best thing that could happen is for Johnson Gove and Rees Mogg to get full control. .

 

[Tredman]

I cannot fathom why anyone who isn't a swivel-eyed loon would ever trust Eurosceptic Tory MPs and the brains trust behind such people to sort out a strategy for negotiating with and departing from the EU. That's a $#@!ing crazy situation to put yourself into.

Yet 53% did. The question therefore is the bigger picture. History should look at ALL the elements of the previous 20 years leading up to the point of the referendum. Never should power come over the interests of the nation. The country is currently getting what it deserves for 20 years of head burying and hoping the EU issue woulkd go away. It didnt. It got worse. It got more air time. It became an issue . It became a slogan and UKIP , one trick pony , rode that wave very successfully. Nothing can change where we now find ourselves. I am not surprised its a mess. I am surprised at how big a mess it is but that is because its the 2 steps forward 3 steps back approach we are taking. There is no quick fix to this. Lets remain......... Not going to happen , there would be anarchy and there would be no trust in the government or the british economy. You thought the pound took a hit before. No this is going to have to run its course, a course set up by Thatcher, ignored by Major, dismissed by Blair, aknowledged by Cameron but not believed and implemented by the weakest Leader in of these in Theresa May. The best thing that could happen is for Johnson Gove and Rees Mogg to get full control. They could then either prove the whole country wrong and make a cracking success of brexit or utterly fuck it up and ensure an earlier election where this time voters may ensure they stay in opposition for a long while.

That's only if you assume people voted because of the swivel-eyed loons. I think it more of just a protest vote which rode on the back of a populist pie in the sky campaign, a good proportion of the 53% would have said NO to anything the government said YES to.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Are you sure you meant to use "The Best Thing" at the start of that??

Yes , completely agree. You know when you say something and you write something and they sound the same but the context is completely opposite? Thats this! Those three clusterfucks could not lead their way out of a paper bag IMHO but the groundswell of Tory voters seem to want them in charge! Let them have it and either chaos will ensue followed by swift change or they will pull a meterphorical rabbit out and deliver. Either way the country wins.