Wolves 1-1 Southampton - Verdict Thread

[Deano]

It's just highlighting a general point that VAR has exclusively chalked off our goals rather than those of our opponents.

That's not why it's shit. If Southampton had that 2nd goal chalked off on Saturday, or Leicester scored the goal we did against them i'd feel for them. It's going to affect every team during the season, and it's not working. People said it wasn't going to have any baring on celebrations which has turned out not to be true.

When we won the penalty Saturday I didn't even bother as I thought it was going to get taken away, the celebrations of winning it around me were more muted than they normally would be. The emotion of football is being killed by it.

 

[Tony Towner]

So you'd rather have wrong decisions than right ones?

Yes I would actually if getting the correct decision takes over 2 minutes and sees the other side kicking off before a review. As I said, I think that damages the game, or at least the game as I recognise it more that a goal that's a few cms offside being allowed to stand


Of course you can separate the technology from those implementing it as it works fine in other places. We have people who are referees backing up referees and their obvious bias, that is all wrong. The operators should have no connection to the referees as the technology should be about right and wrong. The referee in the booth should be independent and from another association or league with no connection to the PGMOL.

You are hypothesising on a situation which doesn't exist though. As it is they do and they are. If you put me in a formula 1 car I'd in all likelihood crash it before the second corner. It wouldn't be the fault of the car, but the result would be the same

.

 

[Johnny75]

Not really TT as it works in other places just fine. It is most certainly the fault of our operators.

I agree that it isn't right and there are clearly those that will never accept it no matter if it was perfect. I don't think anything will change the mind of those people, having said that, right now it's terrible and is being ruined by the idiots trying to implement it.

I can't believe anybody would be OK with wrong decisions. I'll remind you of that at some point

 

[Templeton Peck]

Not really TT as it works in other places just fine. It is most certainly the fault of our operators.

I agree that it isn't right and there are clearly those that will never accept it no matter if it was perfect. I don't think anything will change the mind of those people, having said that, right now it's terrible and is being ruined by the idiots trying to implement it.

I can't believe anybody would be OK with wrong decisions. I'll remind you of that at some point

It's the price you're prepared to pay for correct decisions. As VAR is being used at the moment it isn't worth it. Even if it's used brilliantly all the decisions will ultimately come down to human judgement so it'll never be 100%.

 

[Rui_CostCo]

There was no need for the technology, the game doesn’t need it. But it’s not going anywhere so other rules could change to provide some balance. Cutrone was offside yesterday but if the law was tweaked so that any art of the body (that can legitimately touch the ball) is level with the defender...it’s onside. No rule change undoes Raul’s first goal because his body movement was deliberate and towards the ball, but a rule change enables Dendocker’s goal at Leicester to be awarded.
The benefit of the doubt be with the attacking side while preventing deliberate foul play and that’s not where it is at the moment.

VAR does seem to very much favour the defending team. Daylight between defender and attacker is too much of an advantage, but your suggestion for any art of the body that can legitimately touch the ball being at least level would make it much easier and quicker to come to decisions, which is the issue creating the biggest problem. Fans and players being denied what is one of the incomparable joys of football, celebrating a goal.

 

[Johnny75]

Even if it's used brilliantly all the decisions will ultimately come down to human judgement so it'll never be 100%.

This isn't true. Offside decisions are not human judgement much like goal line tech isn't. Handball decisions should not be either as the technology exists for collision detection already.

There will always be subjective decisions on penalties and the officials clearly got the Haller one wrong earlier in the season and that is not acceptable.

The price we should pay for right decisions is a small delay not the nonsense we have now. At the moment it isn't working for anybody in England but it does elsewhere and in other sports.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Yes, I am OK with incorrect decisions. They have been part of football since the game was invented. I only like technology in tennis, rugby and cricket because I only have passing interest in those sports and watch then exclusively on TV which makes me a hypocrite. I have no problem with that hypocrisy.

 

[The Bear]

Yeah know let's make this clear for once and for all. No-one is being denied celebrating a goal. No-one.

I definitely didn't hear deathly silence when either of Raul's goals hit the net on Saturday. Everyone celebrated.

Then once VAR has decided a goal is ok, everyone cheers again. Or, if it decides it is to be ruled out then the opposite fans cheer.

It literally adds more celebrating to the game, for both sides, coupled with a bit of anxiety at the same time.

 

[Johnny75]

Yes, I am OK with incorrect decisions.

Keiran Gibbs dislikes this.

 

[Deano]

Yeah know let's make this clear for once and for all. No-one is being denied celebrating a goal. No-one.

I definitely didn't hear deathly silence when either of Raul's goals hit the net on Saturday. Everyone celebrated.

Then once VAR has decided a goal is ok, everyone cheers again. Or, if it decides it is to be ruled out then the opposite fans cheer.

It literally adds more celebrating to the game, for both sides, coupled with a bit of anxiety at the same time.

Of course everyone celebrates. Nobody is denying that.

It had a marked impact on the celebration of winning the penalty around me though, as people were half expecting it to be taken away.

 

[StuardoWulf]

I think we are just playing it too safe in our attacking phases, numerous times Cutrone cut back into positions where a quick through ball would have got him in but you risk the interception. I want us to be a bit braver. I don't think Soton played badly at all and they didn't just defend either. Their manager sets them up to try and win. Jesus has come in for some stick and I can only add to it.

Overall a underwhelming display and if not for Doc looking for a penalty we would have lost.

As for VAR it got both decisions correct which is good, but Christ it's horrible and at this point I'm thinking with the expense of it all I may retire to the sofa and save
the money.

 

[StuardoWulf]

Yeah know let's make this clear for once and for all. No-one is being denied celebrating a goal. No-one.

I definitely didn't hear deathly silence when either of Raul's goals hit the net on Saturday. Everyone celebrated.

Then once VAR has decided a goal is ok, everyone cheers again. Or, if it decides it is to be ruled out then the opposite fans cheer.

It literally adds more celebrating to the game, for both sides, coupled with a bit of anxiety at the same time.

Did anyone seriously not see that 1st "goal" was handball, I saw it from the southbank.
The lino flagged quite why they did a VAR check I'm not sure unless it was to establish if it was deliberate and a yellow card which is not in the VAR remit.

 

[Andre]

As someone who hasn't been to any game for many years I can still say that VAR is not helping my enjoyment of the game in any way. Every goal scored in a VAR game..... I'm not excited because we all know it can be ruled out for something minor everybody has missed.

True I'm not watching live, I've bookies screens up as the streams and radio are all behind when compared but it is still very much less exciting when a goal goes in.

 

[Del Woppio]

A few people have said that VAR has been brought in for the TV viewer, which is absolute nonsense. It does nothing to enhance the "armchair" experience! It's for the clubs, it's an effort to reduce incorrect/contentious decisions at a time when the prize money per place is ridiculous. If it results more correct decisions that's great imo.

I would like to see a couple of changes though; Offsides for goals checked as a matter of course, but stuff like penalty shouts done on a manager/captain review - but with a lower threshold for overturning. The VAR must surely be able to come to a more informed decision than the in game official, and so his should take precedence.

Onto the game, well it was another match where we struggled to create against a team that let us have the ball. Cutrone made a couple of runs in behind that were unseen, but it was all largely in front of them, very easy to contain due to the slow pace of the passing and the lack of intelligent movement. It's been a bit of a theme this season, and after last season's heroics it's probably already the case that we've let go of a really promising position with the change in style and a shit transfer window. We've wasted a massive opportunity - if we apparently found it difficult to attract the right players this Summer, it'll be a lot harder after a 12th place finish and no European football next season.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Problem is with VAR is its supposed to get correct decisions. But it isn’t. We are getting delays and still getting incorrect decisions IMO, obviously not in the VARs. The idea of the refs not looking at the monitor was to make things quicker. But when they are standing there for 2 mins with their finger in their ear then they may aswell be looking at the monitor.

As for offsides, there’s no fix. If I’m defending and I step up to play a guy off side and he’s two yards in front of me but Is then deemed onside because his heel is level with my toe then that’s a farce and it makes playing offside literally impossible, taking away an art of defending.

 

[Templeton Peck]

2 appeals per manager - that's it. Only use VAR when they appeal.

 

[Templeton Peck]

This isn't true. Offside decisions are not human judgement much like goal line tech isn't. Handball decisions should not be either as the technology exists for collision detection already.

There will always be subjective decisions on penalties and the officials clearly got the Haller one wrong earlier in the season and that is not acceptable.

The price we should pay for right decisions is a small delay not the nonsense we have now. At the moment it isn't working for anybody in England but it does elsewhere and in other sports.

We've already seen inconsistencies with handballs. You can have interpretations of offside but tbf that's due to the rules not VAR.

 

[Tony Towner]

2 appeals per manager - that's it. Only use VAR when they appeal.

Then as you see towards the end of the innings with cricket, you'd just get spurious appeals for the sake of using up the review and would end up with more than you do now

 

[VanWolfie]

So you'd rather have wrong decisions than right ones?

May as well throw the game in the bin then and just let anybody with an opinion have a go at refereeing and if it all goes wrong, tough shit, you can bleat and moan about it on Talksport. To emphasise my point look at the state of the refereeing on Saturday. He was abysmal and got numerous decisions wrong for both teams.

Of course you can separate the technology from those implementing it as it works fine in other places. We have people who are referees backing up referees and their obvious bias, that is all wrong. The operators should have no connection to the referees as the technology should be about right and wrong. The referee in the booth should be independent and from another association or league with no connection to the PGMOL.

I could not agree more with this. I have long argued that football has implemented VAR all wrong. VAR needs to be monitored by specialists, not active referees, and since no time has been spent on training and nurturing specialist VAR analysts, it is no wonder that the whole implementation is a mess. Learn from rugby. Active referees are never used as TMOs because it's a completely different expertise that is required.

 

[Boozad]

Did anyone seriously not see that 1st "goal" was handball, I saw it from the southbank.
The lino flagged quite why they did a VAR check I'm not sure unless it was to establish if it was deliberate and a yellow card which is not in the VAR remit.

Correct on both counts. A few people round by us didn’t celebrate as they saw the flag, I didn’t see it as I was watching Raul and from where we were I didn’t see the use of the arm. And VAR shouldn’t be checking for a yellow card either.