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Burnley 1-0 Wolves: The Verdict

AndyWolves

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It’s not that binary. You know more about football than this (or maybe I’m wrong and you don’t), so don’t know why your being like this.

Playing a back 4 doesn’t mean your open, it doesn’t mean you have more to do. You can just be a kick it and hoof it CB and are less likely to be dragged into channels for a start.

Playing more forward players doesn’t neccesarily mean you will be better in attack same as less defenders doesn’t mean you will be open in defence.
I guess I see our CBs being good in a system but poor when they're asked to defend in more of a 1 v 1 basis which I would see 4 at the back meaning more of.

I don't see many clubs where our CBs, kilman aside, would usurp the incumbents.
 

Carsy

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Sorry you'll have to explain in words of one syllable or less to this old thicko, why that post is racist, casually or otherwise.
Assuming peri peri is Portuguese is the only connection I can make. Ridiculous if so
 

PuntsWolf

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Right. Everyone (the fan base) always likes to go back to the West Ham game where we got torn apart with a 4 under Nuno to say why we can’t play it (ignoring the fact we got torn apart away with a 5, and got smashed by Burnley at home with a 5).

So here we go:

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We don’t concede from here because we have a back 4. We concede firstly because our LB decided to press the ball rather than staying with Coufal. That’s not his job to press. In a 5 maybe but not a 4. So he presses because he’s either young and naive, or he’s been given the wrong instruction, possibly both.

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If he drops and follows Coufal then this doesn’t happen where we’ve got 8 ahead of the ball. Not even Liverpool find themselves in this position. Having 8 ahead of the ball is crazy in itself as when we have a back 3 we rarely had 5 ahead of the ball, especially in the first minutes!
It’s just massive confusion from players who haven’t played this system.

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That leaves us effectively 2 v 2 so they have to drop otherwise it’s a simple pass, and Coady is losing the foot race to Antonio. Yes Donck should bring him down, yes Saiss should do better when he does engage. But this scenario didn’t happen because it was a 4. It was because both CM and FBs were ahead of the ball when if one of them wasn’t it probably doesn’t happen. That’s poor set up, coaching, individual mistakes rather than the system.

If those 3 happen in any system you concede goals. See Sunday for details.
 

Carsy

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I personally think he deserves the summer, to get his players in. After all, nuno was backed to get the players in he wanted to play his style of football.

I do believe credit is deserved for us being 8th. If we flipped the season round, had this dross at the start abs the results in the middle/towards the end then there wouldn’t be as much doom abs gloom. Likely good is with it being so fresh doesn’t help.

I’d say Lage has done a decent job. I would’ve taken 8th at the start of the season, but if you strip it back and look at how leicester have been, Everton if free fall, Southampton being Southampton, Villa going on holiday etc, we are 8th IMO more on others failure then our success. So many of our games you can look at abs say ‘could’ve gone either way’ I don’t recall many where we have looked head a shoulders above anyone.

If worse teams than us play a back 4, I don’t see why we can’t. It’s such a strange one. That being said adding another centre mid doesn’t necessarily make us more creative, depends entirely on the style. Example adding dendoncker to neves abs Moutinho doesn’t all of a sudden gain us 5 goals, and I’m yet to be convinced with cundle in his few performances, however not against giving him a chance.

Huge summer, winning, as with losing becomes a habit. If we start next year the way we finished this one, Lage won’t be here by the World Cup
 

Deutsch Wolf

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Then he'd have been sacked before the clocks went back
Had we lost to Villa (and we should have) he'd have opened up with 5 defeats in 8. I think he'd have been on very shaky ground, especially as he picked a weird team for that one. Which proved to be a portent for the rest of the season.
 

redvictor

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Ah, this old Mother Hubbard again.

I wish he was good, why wouldn't I. He isn't though. I don't like him because his football is shit and the results have been awful lately.
It's your opinion though isn't it. Not everyone has the same one.
 

AndyWolves

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Had we lost to Villa (and we should have) he'd have opened up with 5 defeats in 8. I think he'd have been on very shaky ground, especially as he picked a weird team for that one. Which proved to be a portent for the rest of the season.
If we'd won the first three, and we should have, then I think the ground would have been a tad firmer.
 

Carsy

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Then he'd have been sacked before the clocks went back
9 points from last 9 games? Don’t think he would’ve …

Naturally If we started as we are playing now I wouldn’t of had the confidence of us picking up points. All hypothetical Ofcourse
 

Deutsch Wolf

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We didn't deserve to beat Leicester. A draw was about right. Got our own back at Molineux as we didn't deserve the win that time.

We weren't that good against Spurs, Lloris barely made a save second half. Granted their penalty shouldn't have been given.

Yes, should have beaten United. As we now know, it's not a big achievement to beat them at the moment.

Those three games have been mythologised beyond all comprehension.
 

Carsy

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If we'd won the first three, and we should have, then I think the ground would have been a tad firmer.
Maybe we would’ve continued you play that brand of football as well, who knows.

We can only judge the present, and the last month or two have been very worrying.

I’ve been in the camp of ‘we’re challenging for Europe, we must be doing well’, but a lot on here have said about our style not being sustainable etc. with the style we play, staying in games you’re going to get a burst of good results, bad results etc as games are being decided by the odd goal. It high risk.

I don’t see how we can’t be winning some games by 2 or 3 goals. Equally, we would potentially lose some by 2 or 3. It’s striking a balance.

It’s a results based game, and I was fine with bland football achieving results. It depends on peoples perspective. But when the football is bland, with no results and we appear to be regressing. I wouldn’t go as far as free fall, but worrying nonetheless, there’s little to be happy about
 

PuntsWolf

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Whether you like stats/xG that graph isn’t great. We’ve either totally broke the model or it’s not sustainable. And is potentially regressing to the mean already.
 
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AndyWolves

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View attachment 5320
Whether you like stats/xG that graph isn’t great. We’ve either totally broke the model or it’s not sustainable. And is potentially regressing to the mean already.
So that raises the question, we're we overperforming at the start of the season or are we underperforming now?

Where is our realistic position?
 

Dire Wolf

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I just see the word 'cumm' written 4 times and chuckle in an extremely juvenile fashion.
 

Carsy

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So that raises the question, we're we overperforming at the start of the season or are we underperforming now?

Where is our realistic position?
Personally we are currently a mid table team realistically. Anywhere between 8-15, dependent on a couple of good/bad runs of results. Our squad is weaker now than it was in our first year in the prem, whereas others have signed players etc.

On Sunday, 7 out of our 11 were starters in our first year in the prem. very rare if your team is progressing
 

AndyWolves

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Personally we are currently a mid table team realistically. Anywhere between 8-15, dependent on a couple of good/bad runs of results. Our squad is weaker now than it was in our first year in the prem, whereas others have signed players etc.

On Sunday, 7 out of our 11 were starters in our first year in the prem. very rare if your team is progressing
That's why I don't consider us an established PL team until we've replaced most, it not all, of our first prem squad under Nuno.
 

Carsy

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That's why I don't consider us an established PL team until we've replaced most, it not all, of our first prem squad under Nuno.
Not sure if you’re ever really ‘established’ outside the sky 6. Everyone else has gone down at some stage in the history of the prem
 

Tony Towner

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Not sure if you’re ever really ‘established’ outside the sky 6. Everyone else has gone down at some stage in the history of the prem
Everton haven't...yet. Depends on what established means, Palace have done a decade, I'd say that's established
 
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