Let's talk about Nuno....

[Deleted Cyber]

I knew I wasn’t good enough for England but Eire? You never knew

 

[Deleted Cyber]

So back to the thread.
Is Nuno the best manager in my lifetime? Yes
Are we better than any time in the last 30 years ? Yes
Did we recruit well last summer? No
Is fosun in this to make money? Yes
Do we need new players? Yed
Will we be relegated? No
Will we best West Brom? Probably not!

 

[Alan]

I think Raul's injury is red herring if for no other reason than that he was playing like shit for at least a month prior.

Poor Fabio is getting held up against the myth of Raul, not Raul the actual player. He hasn't acquitted himself well since his first couple of appearances, but I personally don't feel that we're getting significantly less from him than we were from Raul.

I know I have reputation for being negative about our best players (see: Neves, Ruben), but what I mean in this case is that Raul coming back won't necessarily fix things and we shouldn't be operating under that assumption. Improvements can and should be made tactically, especially in terms of how we're defending balls into the box. We have never been great at clearing the ball to an outlet (I couldn't rightfully tell you how often we seem to head it out to an opposing player who is unmarked at the edge of the box, but it feels like a lot), and with one less CB that issue is exacerbated. Couple that with Semedo and Ait-Nouri, who both like to play high up the pitch and aren't the greatest 1v1 defenders in the world, and you end up in situations like yesterday where you ship goals that are completely avoidable.

The good news is that, because said goals are avoidable, the ways to prevent them aren't soccer rocket science, and I still have faith in Nuno to adjust and nullify the problem somewhat. How that affects us going forward is another story, but IMO we've never been a team who can rightfully expect to score more than twice in any given match. Generally speaking, if we concede two goals, we're not getting more than a point, even with Raul.

Tl,dr; Nuno and the players have both the intelligence and ability to do better than they have been, and for now I trust that they will improve. If we're sitting here in May talking about the same problems, then I can genuinely see us moving on from Nuno, much as I love him. Crossing my fingers it doesn't come to that, as I think he is an incredible manager on the whole, if not overly cautious at times.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Your argument falls down when the team we played last night had the completely ineffectual James and Gylfi up front. Both offered about the same as Silva last night

1) they had two strikers injured not 1.
2) Ancelotti thought multi million pound superstars were better than Cenk Tosun, like Nuno thought Otasowie as a false 9 was, in hindsight they weren’t, they’d have been better off playing Tosun.
3) He knew he could rely on Richarlison off the bench if he needed to
4) He also knew he still had Tosun if required.
5) they still won the game

 

[Tony Towner]

I think Raul's injury is red herring if for no other reason than that he was playing like shit for at least a month prior.

Poor Fabio is getting held up against the myth of Raul, not Raul the actual player. He hasn't acquitted himself well since his first couple of appearances, but I personally don't feel that we're getting significantly less from him than we were from Raul.

I know I have reputation for being negative about our best players (see: Neves, Ruben), but what I mean in this case is that Raul coming back won't necessarily fix things and we shouldn't be operating under that assumption. Improvements can and should be made tactically, especially in terms of how we're defending balls into the box. We have never been great at clearing the ball to an outlet (I couldn't rightfully tell you how often we seem to head it out to an opposing player who is unmarked at the edge of the box, but it feels like a lot), and with one less CB that issue is exacerbated. Couple that with Semedo and Ait-Nouri, who both like to play high up the pitch and aren't the greatest 1v1 defenders in the world, and you end up in situations like yesterday where you ship goals that are completely avoidable.

The good news is that, because said goals are avoidable, the ways to prevent them aren't soccer rocket science, and I still have faith in Nuno to adjust and nullify the problem somewhat. How that affects us going forward is another story, but IMO we've never been a team who can rightfully expect to score more than twice in any given match. Generally speaking, if we concede two goals, we're not getting more than a point, even with Raul.

Tl,dr; Nuno and the players have both the intelligence and ability to do better than they have been, and for now I trust that they will improve. If we're sitting here in May talking about the same problems, then I can genuinely see us moving on from Nuno, much as I love him. Crossing my fingers it doesn't come to that, as I think he is an incredible manager on the whole, if not overly cautious at times.

I think your point about Raul's general play this season is fair, but does miss the fact that even in that comparably poor run he scored 4 goals from open play 2 of which were top class finishes, one with an element of luck but totally self made and the other a good header, harder than the ones Fabio has missed.

That's 4 we wouldn't have scored in the current set up and it would be reasonable to assume he would have scored at least another 2/3 since which his replacement hasn't

 

[Alan]

It's one of Raul's gifts. He can have an utterly shite game, but pop up and score out of absolutely nothing.

I don't fault him for it, on the contrary. It's what sets him apart from most forwards in the world.

In some respects, it's that ability of his that has papered over some of the issues that are now roosting in the table. In terms of the effectiveness of our open play, however, I haven't seen a huge drop off without Raul in there. It's just that we can't magic something out of nothing without him.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I think your point about Raul's general play this season is fair, but does miss the fact that even in that comparably poor run he scored 4 goals from open play 2 of which were top class finishes, one with an element of luck but totally self made and the other a good header, harder than the ones Fabio has missed.

That's 4 we wouldn't have scored in the current set up and it would be reasonable to assume he would have scored at least another 2/3 since which his replacement hasn't

I would point out that Rauls injury added to the sale of Jota and Doherty adds up to a 30 goal deficit on last season which the replacements Semedo and Fabio have contributed only one so far in half a season or 5 if you count Raul. Those goals for plus the poor form at the back leads us into a bottom half position. I am not the greatest Rui fan. It’s well known on here. He doesn’t get us enough points . Pope gets Burnley points. Just a single comparison. Ruddy is on the wane and I don’t know enough about Sondergard. I think we need a premier quality keeper in the next year. Rui form has been poor for a while. He has had one good game v Leicester and that’s it since September.

 

[Alan]

Pope gets Burnley points.

How many of their 16 points would you say are down to Pope?

 

[prawnking]

My, we are in a mood today . I'm leaving this until you've had some warm milk and calmed down a bit.

Apologies, on second viewing it reads as more confrontational than intended

 

[Premier Quality]

So, back to the thread
Is Nuno the best manager in my lifetime? Yes
Are we better than any time in the last 30 years ? Yes
Did we recruit well last summer? Mostly
Is fosun in this to make money? No
Do we need new players? I wouldn’t complain if we signed another one this window.
Will we be relegated? No
Will we best West Brom? Probably.

 

[Tony Towner]

Did we recruit well last summer? Mostly
Is fosun in this to make money? No

I disagree with these 2 points. The first is too soon to judge imo. There isn't one I'd say is an unqualified success, but there were only Semedo and Marcal who you'd realistically say could have been this soon into their time here. One has been much covered and the other came with a chequered injury record which has continued

The second, they are. That doesn't mean they are bleeding the club dry or whatever hyperbole might be on Twitter or wherever, but ultimately they are an investment business so it's their raison d'etre. It'll either come from PL/European profits or selling us for 10 times plus what they paid

 

[North Shropshire Lad]

I would point out that Rauls injury added to the sale of Jota and Doherty adds up to a 30 goal deficit on last season which the replacements Semedo and Fabio have contributed only one so far in half a season or 5 if you count Raul. Those goals for plus the poor form at the back leads us into a bottom half position. I am not the greatest Rui fan. It’s well known on here. He doesn’t get us enough points . Pope gets Burnley points. Just a single comparison. Ruddy is on the wane and I don’t know enough about Sondergard. I think we need a premier quality keeper in the next year. Rui form has been poor for a while. He has had one good game v Leicester and that’s it since September.

I've never been Rui's Number 1 fan (although have always quite liked him apart from his kicking), admit he's been in less than sparkling form of late and coupled with his deciding not to come for crosses as well, but if we are talking about improving the starting 11 there are about seven others I'd start with before him.

 

[Alan]

Fosun are 100% in it to make a profit, but equally they're obviously not in a hurry about it. You don't buy a Championship team with a plan to turn it into a perennial UCL competitor without an understanding of how long that could take.

I mean, you could, but I think Fosun have earned enough respect to say that they knew what they were getting into and the timeline of their goal.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I don’t want the usual two bun fight when Cyber quotes stats but
Rui has faced fewer shots on thttps://one-versus-one.com/en/players/Nick-Popearget, made fewer saves than Pope. According to the internet figues available. He also has a higher score per game performance average than Rui. So while I cannot categorically say he has won Burnley points the fact the are A few points behind us having played two games less, having beaten us and having only scored 9 goals , 2 against us , yes it all points to Pope performing better than Rui this season.

 

[Alan]

Could also mean that Pope has simply had more to do, tbf.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Could also mean that Pope has simply had more to do, tbf.

And done it better tbf

 

[Alan]

Not necessarily, but carry on, if you like. I'm not particularly bothered enough about it to research when I really should be working.

Short version: more shots faced means more opportunities to "win points". You'd also need a shot map and likely an xG stat to really break down which keeper is doing more for their team.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I've never been Rui's Number 1 fan (although have always quite liked him apart from his kicking), admit he's been in less than sparkling form of late and coupled with his deciding not to come for crosses as well, but if we are talking about improving the starting 11 there are about seven others I'd start with before him.

Yep you’re not wrong. But Rui is becoming a bit of an elephant in the room given that he is our highest wage earner or close to it and lorded as a world class keeper. For me he needs to start turning on better than average performance standards to justify it. Yes, I agree other positions need improvement but at the moment Rui does not appear confident in his defence who also don’t appear confident in him and it will cost us goals. 11 without a clean sheet and counting

 

[Premier Quality]

I disagree with these 2 points. The first is too soon to judge imo. There isn't one I'd say is an unqualified success, but there were only Semedo and Marcal who you'd realistically say could have been this soon into their time here. One has been much covered and the other came with a chequered injury record which has continued

The second, they are. That doesn't mean they are bleeding the club dry or whatever hyperbole might be on Twitter or wherever, but ultimately they are an investment business so it's their raison d'etre. It'll either come from PL/European profits or selling us for 10 times plus what they paid

I think the summer shopping was ok - I think Hoever is a cracking signing. I think silva was good for the long term, Semedo is clearly what Nuno wanted so we can play our way out of danger retaining possession, Marcal was fine for cover and the two young loan lads are a try before you buy session. I’m quite happy with that, even though none of them have been unbelievable.

I think fosun bought us for the soft power, and now we’re a nice shiny prize amongst all the highly sensible financials, that they enjoy. That doesn’t mean they want to lose money on us, but I also don’t think we’re merely a money making machine.

 

[redvictor]

I thought this thread would be a pissing contest, but surprisingly it's pretty balanced.
Nuno in 100% for me. Yes, he makes some odd decisions on tactics and subs, but he's certainly the best manager we have had in decades, and it would be insane to even think about replacing him right now.
I read through the thread and i didn't see the lack of fans being mentioned (forgive me if i missed it). I think this is huge for this team. I think they thrive on the pressure in the stadium, where other teams don't. You can see that with teams who don't (Villa in particular) do well when their fans are giving them a hard time. The fans deal (for us) needs to be factored in here.
Another factor is Nuno hasn't seen his family for 9 months. He's big on family and that must be affecting him badly, and might explain some of his strange decisions of late imo.
For me personally Raul's injury has been the catalyst in all of this. It's not just him missing per se, but all the little things that have added up to being where we are in the table that have seemed to happen after that Arsenal game.