The Definitive TWF UK & Ireland XI (1970 - present) - ST VOTING OPEN

[James]

Sir Alex Ferguson
Brian Clough
Sir Bobby Robson

Carlo ancelotti
Del Bosque
Jose Mourinho

Pitting the 2 teams against one another would simply lead to s World XI win.

 

[Boozad]

Rooney has been complete and utter shite for a while now, but it is easy to forget that at his very best, he was an exceptional player.

He wasn't at his best for very long though, that was his trouble. It didn't help in his later career that several managers insisted on playing him where he just couldn't play.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

2004-2010 he was amazing. At club level anyway.

Never been the same since he got injured vs Bayern and rushed back for the second leg.

 

[Nando]

Indeed. I've slagged him off repeatedly for a long time, but that doesn't mean I don't recognise how good he was at his peak. That peak is at least on on a par with Owen, Fowler etc.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

Fergie
Clough
Graham


Mourinho
Sacchi
Ancelotti

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Indeed. I've slagged him off repeatedly for a long time, but that doesn't mean I don't recognise how good he was at his peak. That peak is at least on on a par with Owen, Fowler etc.

I'd say those pair had a way shorter peak (incredible when they were at that level, of course). Both perfectly decent strikers as they went on, but Owen never quite trusted his hamstring after it went vs Leeds (1999?), never scored 20 league goals in a season for anyone and was never anything like top level after 2006. Fowler had three insane seasons but was probably already starting to wane by the time he did his cruciate in 1997/8. Then his hip was fucked by the time he joined Leeds.

 

[Boozad]

Oh don't get me wrong, Rooney was unplayable in his prime, an absolutely fantastic player. But with someone of his natural talent and fitness levels you'd expect that to be for far more than 50% of his career, especially when he hit the headlines at 17. To be on a downward spiral before you should be hitting your peak years is pretty bad.

 

[Trips]

I'd say those pair had a way shorter peak (incredible when they were at that level, of course). Both perfectly decent strikers as they went on, but Owen never quite trusted his hamstring after it went vs Leeds (1999?), never scored 20 league goals in a season for anyone and was never anything like top level after 2006. Fowler had three insane seasons but was probably already starting to wane by the time he did his cruciate in 1997/8. Then his hip was fucked by the time he joined Leeds.

Rooney has only hit 20 league goals in a season twice. Goals in all competitions he has hit 20+ 4 times vs 5 times for Owen.

Owen's league goal scoring record for Liverpool only dipped below 1 in 2 in the 99-00 season when he made the least appearances of Liverpool career in a season. After he returned from Madrid he definitely wasn't the player he was, but his stats stand up to scrutiny throughout his entire Liverpool career to 2004

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Fair. But Owen was only 25 when he signed for Newcastle. If we're having a go at Rooney for tailing off early...

 

[Trips]

Owen massively tailed off early, not disputing that.

For me Rooney had 2 fantastic seasons at United, which coincided with when they played him up top on his own, and his goal scoring record was superb. He has been pretty steady otherwise throughout his career (in terms of goals return), mainly because when he played in a 2 he would constantly drop off looking for the ball. Getting 50+ goals for England is fantastic, but if successive managers hadn't persisted in playing him in the hole, and stuck him up top I'm sure he would have scored more and England would have been better for it.

 

[Boozad]

Owen could plead injuries in defence to be fair.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Agree with Trips on Rooney as a main striker/dropping off in a two. And he hasn't looked after himself brilliantly, no doubt. I'd still say it's injuries with him though. Broke his foot in 2004, broke his foot in 2006 (rushed back for the World Cup), did his ankle in that Bayern game in 2010 and took a silly gamble on coming back for the second leg (he was on crutches something like four days before the game). He's never struck the ball in the same way since, you can lose pace and general mobility as you start to age but you shouldn't lose the ability to hammer the ball in your late 20s and 30s when it's been one of your strengths beforehand.

He's been ruinously poor since at least 2013 (which still gives him over a decade of being good...) which doesn't help his reputation at the moment. Fergie knew he'd had it and wanted rid. It's Owen, Rush and Lineker he's beaten in the end for second place (no-one else was that near)...I don't think it's too controversial to rank him higher than all of them. Maybe not the fairest comparison with Lineker who was superb at what he did but offered bugger all else (and as we've seen with these things, he was effectively finished by 1992...it's a long time ago now and the voting reflects that).

 

[AndyWolves]

By the way, we'll do both the Wolves XI and the present day XI if you want. No problem there. It's just which one do you want first.

Just an idea, but we could get people to predict what the final XI will be (via a message or something) and then see who was closest?

I'm not volunteering to do it though!

 

[AndyWolves]

Rooney in his prime was unplayable.

I remember a game where UTD had a player sent off and Rooney played up front on his own, being a player down made no difference to how effective UTD were because Rooney was just that good!

 

[Templeton Peck]

Maybe, although you underestimate how much the oldies think we were world beaters in the 70s (despite winning virtually nothing, and virtually none of the players having any kind of international career) Mike Bailey got votes in the central midfield category here for instance. One of the best central midfielders that the UK and Ireland have produced in 47 years. Two England caps, neither of them earned when he played for Wolves. Emotive stuff clearly.

Plus we've been $#@! for most of the last 20 years. 30 years for that matter. I bet you loads of the late 80s team get a mention even though objectively, they obviously weren't that good (Bully aside).

You can't just base it on caps though. Heskey played 62 times for England and Peter Broadbent 7.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Rooney was amazing when he first appeared - looked like being one of the all time greats. Didn't do it for England though after 05 really.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

You can't just base it on caps though. Heskey played 62 times for England and Peter Broadbent 7.

True. But I still doubt Mike Bailey was that good.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

True. But I still doubt Mike Bailey was that good.

Mike Bailey was not that great a player, but he was a fantastic captain. He did his job in the middle of the park, had an unbelievably long throw in, but more importantly he was the leader. With Waggy, Jimmy Mac, The Doog etc.., we needed a steady hand in there and Bailey was that. He very rarely stood out as man of the match, but he was very consistent.

 

[Johnny75]

Agree with Trips on Rooney as a main striker/dropping off in a two. And he hasn't looked after himself brilliantly, no doubt. I'd still say it's injuries with him though. Broke his foot in 2004, broke his foot in 2006 (rushed back for the World Cup), did his ankle in that Bayern game in 2010 and took a silly gamble on coming back for the second leg (he was on crutches something like four days before the game). He's never struck the ball in the same way since, you can lose pace and general mobility as you start to age but you shouldn't lose the ability to hammer the ball in your late 20s and 30s when it's been one of your strengths beforehand.

He's been ruinously poor since at least 2013 (which still gives him over a decade of being good...) which doesn't help his reputation at the moment. Fergie knew he'd had it and wanted rid. It's Owen, Rush and Lineker he's beaten in the end for second place (no-one else was that near)...I don't think it's too controversial to rank him higher than all of them. Maybe not the fairest comparison with Lineker who was superb at what he did but offered bugger all else (and as we've seen with these things, he was effectively finished by 1992...it's a long time ago now and the voting reflects that).

If it was on pure talent then Stan Collymore would be my number one. Literally had everything. I think Rooney was brilliant at his peak and people do get misty eyed over Lineker and Owen as they were OK at best and very one dimensional but their achievements as players were on a par if not greater.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Lineker did it at the highest level-the level at which most England players fail. No good scoring 4 against Estonia only to turn in Corica level performances at the finals.