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Wolves 1-3 Liverpool: Verdict Thread

Problem is, we don't have a credible alternative for the next 3 months at least so needs to manage the relationship one way or another

Wouldn't bother me if we did go with Bentley. You're just swapping out a keeper I don't trust (with a bulging dossier of evidence why not) for one I don't think is up to the mark, what's the difference.

It should have been a priority to sort out in the summer.
 
That’s quite an assumption

I’d imagine yesterday GON wanted more mobility for us to break quickly. That being said, would’ve made for sense for him to come on 2nd half over Silva, focal point to get us up the pitch.

Going forward, Sasa with 3 behind him will be the way once Sasa fully fit I’d imagine
I'd imagine GON will be under a fair bit of pressure not to drop Kilman.
 
No way he's allowed to drop Kilman after the ridiculousness of us refusing to sell him and then making him captain.
 
He won't drop Dawson either. His next move will be to add a 3rd CB next to them to cover their deficiencies rather than dealing with the problem by dropping them.
Thought that might have happened yesterday. Saving it for city perhaps.
 
I'd imagine GON will be under a fair bit of pressure not to drop Kilman.
Time will tell. I’d also imagine the fact that Bueno has only had 2 training sessions with the team and had a fair old journey in the week also plays a part.
 
No way he's allowed to drop Kilman after the ridiculousness of us refusing to sell him and then making him captain.
He going to get sacked shortly anyway. May as well play who he likes.
 
Seems a bit like gatekeeping to me, very Tony Bellew. Does this mean Pep can never be criticised because his CV is better than nearly anyone commenting on games?

Why do you critique Gary O'Neil, how many PL clubs have you managed? How many PL appearances on your CV that makes your opinion valid?

It's bullshit.

What an embarrassing nonsense of a response
 
Time will tell. I’d also imagine the fact that Bueno has only had 2 training sessions with the team and had a fair old journey in the week also plays a part.
I thought i read somewhere that he is/was not match fit enough to play for Uruguay, has he been injured ?.
 
Think that was quite a strange game to draw conclusions from. Judging the team as a single entity I think positives might slightly outweigh the negatives but looking at players individually that swaps over the other way. Think Liverpool can probably can consider themselves a bit fortune to have such a comfortable looking result on paper as they made hard work of it and ended up relying on gifts from Wolves.

First half was a solid performance against a stronger side, sort any mid-lower table side would hope to achieve. Managed to restrict Liverpool to very little with RAN keeping Salah quiet and looked like there was a rehearsed plan to make things difficult through the centre of the park. Seemed like Cunha, Hwang, Neto and Bellegarde had the instruction to channel the passing through the middle from Liverpool's centre halves and the central two in particular restricting MacAllister getting on it easily. That forced longer passes into Jones or Szoboszlai which Gomes and Lemina were then able to close in on and made a fair number of interceptions. Then with Neto getting plenty of joy from Gomez there was threat to go through other way, think the two in central midfield were good with their distribution out to him when they nicked it ahead of Liverpool's midfield and there was enough running from Cunha, Hwang and Bellegarde in support to concern Liverpool. Think the centre halves generally used the ball pretty well too, missing out Gomes and Lemina for the most part and fizzing some good balls into feet beyond Jones/Szoboszlai to get at Liverpool's backline quicker.

Thought the second half started in the same vein generally but there were already more errors starting to creep in, use of the ball dropped off noticeably making it difficult to offer the threat on the counter that had been present first half, Neto's influence faded quickly as a result. Klopp's changes did have a bit of an effect, pretty basic as it was but putting more bodies further up the pitch forced Neto, Hwang, Gomes and Lemina backwards and ruin the little play that Wolves had been running to filter those passes from Liverpool's centre halves. Ended up with Szoboszlai pretty much having the centre of the park to himself and whilst he didn't do anything really of note in the game that space became more of a problem for Wolves as the game went on. Don't think Wolves' changes had the disasterous effect on the game that many seem to be intimating. Think Doherty definitely offered a bit more surety against Robertson where Hwang had struggled and Fabio was just as ineffective as Cunha after the break, not sure Kalajdzic would've done any different as there was no sort of service at that point.

There was some real school boy stuff in all three Liverpool goals, think without some shocking defending in those incidents it could've been a very frustrating afternoon for them. Plenty of huffing and puffing but very little top end quality or ingenuity on display, just ended up winning the numbers game plugging away and hoping for a mistake.

First one for me starts with some really poor pressure from Bellegarde and Cunha, just allowed Szoboszlai to stroll forward with the ball and create an overload right on the edge of Wolves' box. Gomes and Lemina both indecisive in trying to mitigate that situation then it turns into all out chaos and panic with people diving into half arsed challenges ignoring everything away from the ball. Dawson then the worst culprit for me, Kilman gets pelters for his passive moments but this was as bad as anything he's done in that respect. Just backs off into the box nowhere near anything when the panic sets in and then he runs back to the line like a classic Coady surrender as the ball goes out to Salah, ends up blindly playing Gakpo onside for a tap in.

Second one is obviously a poor kick from Sa but conceding possession on the half way line with only one of your players ahead of the ball isn't the gift that some are making out. Plenty could be done after that point but nothing is and none of that is on Sa. Traore doesn't literally fuck all despite being the freshest set of legs on the pitch, Gomes does little better despite actually noticing the run to some extent then Dawson throws in a too little, too late attempt at the death. Embarrassing stuff, a bloke literally ran half the pitch in a straight line and that was enough to beat 8 of the Wolves team.

Third is a bit of an unfortunate kick in the teeth but still Dawson needs to do better when he comes short to get tight with Nunes, another fault that his partner is usually at fault for, and Bueno can't be suckered in towards Salah so easily leaving Elliott so much space as a result.

I don't think there was a massive disparity between first and second halves overall, though the latter definitely lacked the counter attacking threat as more players struggled with their use of ball. Eventually it was more individual mistakes rather than systematic failure that saw the result go in Liverpool's favour in my eyes.

Few notes on individuals...

Sa didn't have a great deal to do I didn't think, generally collected crosses well other than the one notable exception in the first half and made a few saves to go with that. Notable that he was also a lot safer/quicker with his use of the ball when it was played back to him, seemed content to just get it up the pitch rather than overthink it. Somewhat ironic then that he fell foul attempting what was once the best aspect of his distribution, that quick ball out after a set piece. Seen a few suggest he should've just held onto it and settled things down but at the same time no-one wanted to settle for damage limitation for this fixture so I wouldn't knock him for trying to get something going when that second period offered so little attacking threat.

Defence were generally alright I thought. Obviously Dawson contributed two at least two of the goals against in a substantial way but he wasn't a bombscare all game by any means. RAN had Salah's number but I think every throw in he took went straight to a Liverpool player uncontested. Semedo had a good game, got out of some tight spots and won some good fouls as a result of neat footwork but his use of the ball is so laboured at times that he forces himself to do these things to get out of jail.

Lemina and Gomes both had good first halves, forced backed by sheer weight of numbers Liverpool threw forward in the second half and then struggled to make good use of the ball from those deeper positions. Think they could've benefitted 2nd half from someone sitting directly in front of them second half to prevent that gap from opening up for Liverpool and may have given them an easier out ball when they'd won it back. Doyle and Traore didn't have a great deal for time to make an impact but whilst the former at least managed a few passes the latter may as well not have bothered kitting up.

Wide players had a good opening half, their combination for the goal showing the different positives they bring to the team. Neto then struggled to have any real involvement in the game after the break, at times I think he then pushed too far on trying to overcompensate but it didn't cause any real issue. Hwang struggled with his positioning when Robertson pushed on, bring Doherty on in his place wasn't exactly positive but it did close that door for the most part, don't think it really took any attacking impetus away as the wastefulness on the ball already neutered that.

Mixed bag for the two up top. Cunha played his part in the opening goal but then pretty much went to shit. Seen blokes still pissed on a Sunday morning anticipate the flight of the ball better than he did, criminal at this level, then the pointless attempt from halfway that just rolled to Alisson. He's certainly got ability but he's got to start delivering more end product. Bellegarde had a decent debut, few nice runs and couple of decent passes, don't know if that sort of second striker type role really suited him though, particularly when defending I thought he looked a bit lost at times. Another rough week for Fabio up there too, can see why he got the nod ahead of Kalajdzic as he appears at least a bit more mobile for chasing stuff down but he's far from prime Drogba in those situations, doesn't appear to be able to concentrate on both the physical battle and technical mastery simultaneously so either gets shrugged off or has a wank touch. Few times he got stuck in against Konate and Matip only to see the ball bounce harmlessly into space off the back of his head and then the one time he robbed Szoboszlai from a throw in only to get tackled by Bellegarde. Increasingly thinking he'll be something of a luxury player where his team needs to dominate but also looking less likely he'll have the outright quality to attract a team capable of doing such in a top league.

Certainly don't think the game was a complete disaster, some things to work on without doubt but there's some positives in there too. Think a slight change in shape to more of a 4411/4231 rather than essentially 442 would've helped in the 2nd half, particularly after Liverpool's 2nd lot of changes. Plonk someone in there centrally with the remit to sit on Szoboszlai and leave the other forward to notionally harass the two centre halves forcing them to play longer balls forward might have kept the balance more like it had been before the break.
 
Think that was quite a strange game to draw conclusions from. Judging the team as a single entity I think positives might slightly outweigh the negatives but looking at players individually that swaps over the other way. Think Liverpool can probably can consider themselves a bit fortune to have such a comfortable looking result on paper as they made hard work of it and ended up relying on gifts from Wolves.

First half was a solid performance against a stronger side, sort any mid-lower table side would hope to achieve. Managed to restrict Liverpool to very little with RAN keeping Salah quiet and looked like there was a rehearsed plan to make things difficult through the centre of the park. Seemed like Cunha, Hwang, Neto and Bellegarde had the instruction to channel the passing through the middle from Liverpool's centre halves and the central two in particular restricting MacAllister getting on it easily. That forced longer passes into Jones or Szoboszlai which Gomes and Lemina were then able to close in on and made a fair number of interceptions. Then with Neto getting plenty of joy from Gomez there was threat to go through other way, think the two in central midfield were good with their distribution out to him when they nicked it ahead of Liverpool's midfield and there was enough running from Cunha, Hwang and Bellegarde in support to concern Liverpool. Think the centre halves generally used the ball pretty well too, missing out Gomes and Lemina for the most part and fizzing some good balls into feet beyond Jones/Szoboszlai to get at Liverpool's backline quicker.

Thought the second half started in the same vein generally but there were already more errors starting to creep in, use of the ball dropped off noticeably making it difficult to offer the threat on the counter that had been present first half, Neto's influence faded quickly as a result. Klopp's changes did have a bit of an effect, pretty basic as it was but putting more bodies further up the pitch forced Neto, Hwang, Gomes and Lemina backwards and ruin the little play that Wolves had been running to filter those passes from Liverpool's centre halves. Ended up with Szoboszlai pretty much having the centre of the park to himself and whilst he didn't do anything really of note in the game that space became more of a problem for Wolves as the game went on. Don't think Wolves' changes had the disasterous effect on the game that many seem to be intimating. Think Doherty definitely offered a bit more surety against Robertson where Hwang had struggled and Fabio was just as ineffective as Cunha after the break, not sure Kalajdzic would've done any different as there was no sort of service at that point.

There was some real school boy stuff in all three Liverpool goals, think without some shocking defending in those incidents it could've been a very frustrating afternoon for them. Plenty of huffing and puffing but very little top end quality or ingenuity on display, just ended up winning the numbers game plugging away and hoping for a mistake.

First one for me starts with some really poor pressure from Bellegarde and Cunha, just allowed Szoboszlai to stroll forward with the ball and create an overload right on the edge of Wolves' box. Gomes and Lemina both indecisive in trying to mitigate that situation then it turns into all out chaos and panic with people diving into half arsed challenges ignoring everything away from the ball. Dawson then the worst culprit for me, Kilman gets pelters for his passive moments but this was as bad as anything he's done in that respect. Just backs off into the box nowhere near anything when the panic sets in and then he runs back to the line like a classic Coady surrender as the ball goes out to Salah, ends up blindly playing Gakpo onside for a tap in.

Second one is obviously a poor kick from Sa but conceding possession on the half way line with only one of your players ahead of the ball isn't the gift that some are making out. Plenty could be done after that point but nothing is and none of that is on Sa. Traore doesn't literally fuck all despite being the freshest set of legs on the pitch, Gomes does little better despite actually noticing the run to some extent then Dawson throws in a too little, too late attempt at the death. Embarrassing stuff, a bloke literally ran half the pitch in a straight line and that was enough to beat 8 of the Wolves team.

Third is a bit of an unfortunate kick in the teeth but still Dawson needs to do better when he comes short to get tight with Nunes, another fault that his partner is usually at fault for, and Bueno can't be suckered in towards Salah so easily leaving Elliott so much space as a result.

I don't think there was a massive disparity between first and second halves overall, though the latter definitely lacked the counter attacking threat as more players struggled with their use of ball. Eventually it was more individual mistakes rather than systematic failure that saw the result go in Liverpool's favour in my eyes.

Few notes on individuals...

Sa didn't have a great deal to do I didn't think, generally collected crosses well other than the one notable exception in the first half and made a few saves to go with that. Notable that he was also a lot safer/quicker with his use of the ball when it was played back to him, seemed content to just get it up the pitch rather than overthink it. Somewhat ironic then that he fell foul attempting what was once the best aspect of his distribution, that quick ball out after a set piece. Seen a few suggest he should've just held onto it and settled things down but at the same time no-one wanted to settle for damage limitation for this fixture so I wouldn't knock him for trying to get something going when that second period offered so little attacking threat.

Defence were generally alright I thought. Obviously Dawson contributed two at least two of the goals against in a substantial way but he wasn't a bombscare all game by any means. RAN had Salah's number but I think every throw in he took went straight to a Liverpool player uncontested. Semedo had a good game, got out of some tight spots and won some good fouls as a result of neat footwork but his use of the ball is so laboured at times that he forces himself to do these things to get out of jail.

Lemina and Gomes both had good first halves, forced backed by sheer weight of numbers Liverpool threw forward in the second half and then struggled to make good use of the ball from those deeper positions. Think they could've benefitted 2nd half from someone sitting directly in front of them second half to prevent that gap from opening up for Liverpool and may have given them an easier out ball when they'd won it back. Doyle and Traore didn't have a great deal for time to make an impact but whilst the former at least managed a few passes the latter may as well not have bothered kitting up.

Wide players had a good opening half, their combination for the goal showing the different positives they bring to the team. Neto then struggled to have any real involvement in the game after the break, at times I think he then pushed too far on trying to overcompensate but it didn't cause any real issue. Hwang struggled with his positioning when Robertson pushed on, bring Doherty on in his place wasn't exactly positive but it did close that door for the most part, don't think it really took any attacking impetus away as the wastefulness on the ball already neutered that.

Mixed bag for the two up top. Cunha played his part in the opening goal but then pretty much went to shit. Seen blokes still pissed on a Sunday morning anticipate the flight of the ball better than he did, criminal at this level, then the pointless attempt from halfway that just rolled to Alisson. He's certainly got ability but he's got to start delivering more end product. Bellegarde had a decent debut, few nice runs and couple of decent passes, don't know if that sort of second striker type role really suited him though, particularly when defending I thought he looked a bit lost at times. Another rough week for Fabio up there too, can see why he got the nod ahead of Kalajdzic as he appears at least a bit more mobile for chasing stuff down but he's far from prime Drogba in those situations, doesn't appear to be able to concentrate on both the physical battle and technical mastery simultaneously so either gets shrugged off or has a wank touch. Few times he got stuck in against Konate and Matip only to see the ball bounce harmlessly into space off the back of his head and then the one time he robbed Szoboszlai from a throw in only to get tackled by Bellegarde. Increasingly thinking he'll be something of a luxury player where his team needs to dominate but also looking less likely he'll have the outright quality to attract a team capable of doing such in a top league.

Certainly don't think the game was a complete disaster, some things to work on without doubt but there's some positives in there too. Think a slight change in shape to more of a 4411/4231 rather than essentially 442 would've helped in the 2nd half, particularly after Liverpool's 2nd lot of changes. Plonk someone in there centrally with the remit to sit on Szoboszlai and leave the other forward to notionally harass the two centre halves forcing them to play longer balls forward might have kept the balance more like it had been before the break.

Admit it... you're a Wolves fan really, aren't you?
 
@MARKakaJIM I won't quote, most I agree with, parts I don't notably "Thought the second half started in the same vein generally", but appreciate the effort (not meant sarcastically)
 
@MARKakaJIM I won't quote, most I agree with, parts I don't notably "Thought the second half started in the same vein generally", but appreciate the effort (not meant sarcastically)

I think the biggest difference was Wolves use of the ball, they were still generally holding Liverpool at arms length even if they were doing so from a deeper position because of the bodies thrown at them. If Wolves could've steadied themselves a little in that respect and found a few occasions to get someone in behind Liverpool on the break again then I could see similar chances opening up to those in the first half.

I don't think it was ever a complete backs to the wall panic job defending for their lives. Other than the goals, which were all gifts from Wolves perspective, then I can't remember many instances where Liverpool really created a clear cut chance of note? Robertson got in once and setup for Diaz for a header that he put wide and then remember Diaz cutting in from the left another couple of times but think he was smothered by Semedo and Dawson before he even got a shot at Sa.

Wouldn't have taken much from any number of Wolves players to prevent at least two of the Liverpool goals and if you're walking away from that with minimum of a point then I think people talk about the performance very differently.
 
I think the biggest difference was Wolves use of the ball, they were still generally holding Liverpool at arms length even if they were doing so from a deeper position because of the bodies thrown at them. If Wolves could've steadied themselves a little in that respect and found a few occasions to get someone in behind Liverpool on the break again then I could see similar chances opening up to those in the first half.

I don't think it was ever a complete backs to the wall panic job defending for their lives. Other than the goals, which were all gifts from Wolves perspective, then I can't remember many instances where Liverpool really created a clear cut chance of note? Robertson got in once and setup for Diaz for a header that he put wide and then remember Diaz cutting in from the left another couple of times but think he was smothered by Semedo and Dawson before he even got a shot at Sa.

Wouldn't have taken much from any number of Wolves players to prevent at least two of the Liverpool goals and if you're walking away from that with minimum of a point then I think people talk about the performance very differently.
Watched a completely different game to me.
 
He has the Dave Edwards knack of always being off balance or falling over whenever he looks to strike the ball, which is fucking abysmal for any “forward” at this level. Something you’d expect from a clogger CB. At least Dave Edwards could use his head, Cunha is just as bad with that.

Plenty of times he works could opportunities and massively overhits through balls too or just fucks the situation and does some silly facial expression saying “oh silly me”, I’m not finding it funny anymore when you keep doing it.

I don’t know what the solution is with him. I don’t want him in the the 10 as his passing is often shite as I alluded to above and he’s not going to chip in with goals. Shove him out wide is probably the best situation. Given the team has very little attacking talent then there’s still a place for a player in our forward options who can’t score or assist
Been thinking for a little while now that I would push Cunha out to the right. He reminds me a bit of Joelinton in that he is a powerful runner, strong, skillful and can get us up the pitch, but he just doesn't seem to have that cool streak in front of goal that is required at the top level. It wouldn't surprise me over time to see Cunha make a similar move in to a wide/midfield role rather than staying up top.

With the emergence of Bellegarde and Sasa hopefully close to full fitness (play him, you prat) - I would suggest our best bet is something like below:

Sasa
Neto - Bellegarde - Cunha
Gomes - Lemina​
 
Been thinking for a little while now that I would push Cunha out to the right. He reminds me a bit of Joelinton in that he is a powerful runner, strong, skillful and can get us up the pitch, but he just doesn't seem to have that cool streak in front of goal that is required at the top level. It wouldn't surprise me over time to see Cunha make a similar move in to a wide/midfield role rather than staying up top.

With the emergence of Bellegarde and Sasa hopefully close to full fitness (play him, you prat) - I would suggest our best bet is something like below:

Sasa
Neto - Bellegarde - Cunha
Gomes - Lemina​
I said exactly this to my lad on Saturday. Hopefully Bellegarde’s unwillingness to shoot when in a good position in the first half isn’t a sign of things to come from him.
 
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