Brighton 3-3 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[redvictor]

It's not a personal attack on Fabio. I like the kid and I want him to be a star at Wolves.

He may be the best player in the world at 22, but it's not reasonable to ask us to wait four years to have an opinion on him or his signing!

It's a (mild) criticism of Nuno/the club.

If you're spending that much on a striker and it's your only striker signing then we don't really have the luxury of putting him in a cocoon for three or four years. We're Wolves, not an elite club.

If you don't think he's ready then, by all means sign him, but get someone else who can step in or share the load in the event that your only striker and star player has to miss some games

Easy to say after the fact though in fairness. Like i said in a previous post no one would have ever envisaged Raul fracturing his skull. Fabio was never bought as a proven ready to go striker.
I do see your point though as 35 mil for a kid raised eyebrows, but i see why they spent it. I think brexit and the new rules had a lot to do with getting him quick rather than bartering and taking time to get him. You have to trust the scouting staff on this purchase.

 

[PuntsWolf]

But you basically have two choices

1) buy Fabio, knowing he’s only 18 and no 18 year old has come to the premier league and scored a significant amount of goals in their first season - but to develop he needs minutes, so you hope Raul remains fit (as he has for the entirety of his career up to that point.

2) buy Fabio AND a backup striker with sufficient quality to cover for Raul if he gets injured. Someone with that quality will want games, meaning Fabio probably doesn’t get the minutes he needs to develop unless Raul gets injured (which he never has before).

it’s a judgement call - Nuno obviously chose option 1, and got caught out by Raul’s freak injury. Now they need to rectify it in this transfer window.

probably the right call at the time, given the faith they have in Fabio to turn into a fantastic player and replace Raul at some point, it’s only hindsight that’s made their choice wrong.

I don’t agree. We were barely giving him any minutes anyway because we didn’t trust him and all our games are always finely poised.
We could have still signed someone to sit on the bench. All the other clubs do it.

Like I said, option 1) would be fine if we knew Fabio could contribute whether that be 10 mins, 30 mins or a one off start if Raul was ill or had a dead leg. We know the answer to that is no. So it was and still is the wrong call. I’m not sure the minutes is that important either at 18. I mean bar last week we haven’t given Hoever a look in and he’s certainly more physically and mentally ready.

 

[prawnking]

I get that severe injuries can happen, and it's probably been an accident waiting to happen on various positions in the team, it's just that we've been very lucky with injuries till now.

It's not being a smart arse to say it's a good idea to have decent cover for your best player though. Let's be honest, we probably all thought Fabio was decent cover, but he doesn't really fit that bill right now.

 

[redvictor]

I don’t agree. We were barely giving him and minutes anyway because we didn’t trust him and all our games are always finely poised.
We could have still signed someone to sit on the bench. All the other clubs do it.

Like I said, option 1) would be fine if we knew Fabio could contribute whether that be 10 mins, 30 mins or a one off start if Raul was ill or had a dead leg. We know the answer to that is no. So it was and still is the wrong call. I’m not sure the minutes is that important either at 18. I mean bar last week we haven’t given Hoever a look in and he’s certainly more physically and mentally ready.

It's hard to find a striker who 1/ Fits totally into Nuno's idea of a team, and 2/ who would be willing to just be a bench warmer. Anyone know the real story behind Cutrone? Because he seems to be what you are suggesting?

 

[Trips]

4 points is a lot when you're mainly getting draws and defeats though.

Also, I've seen a few people say this, but Arsenal were never relegation candidates. They're an elite club, we're not (incidentally, I don't think we're in danger of relegation either)

Oh, in no way did I think Arsenal were relegation candidates. Just in some parts of the media they were talking it up (knowing full well it wouldnt happen)

 

[prawnking]

It's hard to find a striker who 1/ Fits totally into Nuno's idea of a team, and 2/ who would be willing to just be a bench warmer.

Even harder to do it in January when everyone knows you're pretty desperate...

 

[PuntsWolf]

It's hard to find a striker who 1/ Fits totally into Nuno's idea of a team, and 2/ who would be willing to just be a bench warmer. Anyone know the real story behind Cutrone? Because he seems to be what you are suggesting?

It really isn’t. Nelson Oliviera is a shit Raul. There’s probably 100s. I mean palace have Benteke, Ayew and Batshuayi, and they are a midtable team with no money.

Cutrone is a poor mans Billy Sharp. I have idea why we signed him. Doesn’t fit the system.

 

[redvictor]

Oh, in no way did I think Arsenal were relegation candidates. Just in some parts of the media they were talking it up (knowing full well it wouldnt happen)

Maybe what prawnking said is our problem. Wanting us to be in the "elite" clubs but we are not there yet. In stature, and performance. I do believe we can be eventually, but it's going to take a while, and a few Fosun transfer windows.

 

[redvictor]

Even harder to do it in January when everyone knows you're pretty desperate...

Yep. That is a major problem. Even though i think Diego Costa is perfect i don't think he's even on Nuno's radar. Transfer market seems pretty quiet out there currently too.

 

[redvictor]

It really isn’t. Nelson Oliviera is a shit Raul. There’s probably 100s. I mean palace have Benteke, Ayew and Batshuayi, and they are a midtable team with no money.

Cutrone is a poor mans Billy Sharp. I have idea why we signed him. Doesn’t fit the system.

Yes, there's lots out there but getting the right one for Nuno narrows it down a lot. Plus i'm sure they don't want to buy one. A loan or short term one is much preferred i would imagine. The latter makes the field a lot smaller imo.

 

[Jinky]

Buying for the future is fine as a supplement to quality in the here and now.

It doesn't look like we got the balance quite right this summer, especially as I don't think that strategy complements the change of style and approach we chose to undertake at the same time.

100%. But let’s not forget those of us that questioned the tactics/signings in the summer were very quickly told to get back in our boxes.

Probably by the same people who were saying those being slightly critical last night were happy with losing & want Nuno sacked...

You’ll have to forgive me for being slightly skeptical about our ability to sign a top quality centre forward and another 1 or 2 immediate, readymade quality additions for the squad in this window. Despite what some suggested yesterday, I genuinely hope I am wrong.

At least the Palace cup game should give Nuno a chance to rest some key players and to give some more minutes to the likes of Corbeanu, Hoever, Otasowie etc

 

[PuntsWolf]

Andreas Sondergaard is 18 months older than Fabio. Rui Patricio never gets injured.

What we have done with Fabio would be the same as having him as our only potential backup GK at the club 18 months ago. We didn’t do it, we’ve paid John Ruddy probably 40k a week to be useless. So why have we done it up front?

Yes, there's lots out there but getting the right one for Nuno narrows it down a lot. Plus i'm sure they don't want to buy one. A loan or short term one is much preferred i would imagine. The latter makes the field a lot smaller imo.

Makes it bigger than zero though? Saying there isn’t a single player who is good enough to offer something if needed, would be relatively content on the bench, and doesn’t break the bank is just stupid. Literally every other club in world football does it.

 

[Johnny75]

It didn't need to be a back up - jota wasn't a back up, but somebody capable of playing multiple positions, wide or centrally. We had a zero net spend in the summer, and we've left ourselves short, ultimately.

Who?

 

[redvictor]

Andreas Sondergaard is 18 months older than Fabio. Rui Patricio never gets injured.

What we have done with Fabio would be the same as having him as our only potential backup GK at the club 18 months ago. We didn’t do it, we’ve paid John Ruddy probably 40k a week to be useless. So why have we done it up front?

Makes it bigger than zero though? Saying there isn’t a single player who is good enough to offer something if needed, would be relatively content on the bench, and doesn’t break the bank is just stupid. Literally every other club in world football does it.

I didn't suggest there was no one in any way. Just that the field is narrow due to the constraints of the team ethos.

 

[prawnking]

Who?

Who had this in transfer chat bingo?

 

[darlowolf64]

Who had this in transfer chat bingo?

You see this is my problem. Poster makes a sweeping comment, is asked for names of who he thinks we could sign and you pop up with a smart comment... I now await something about the clique turning up

 

[Johnny75]

But define “sufficient quality”.

As I’m posting you’ve beat me to it again TT. At the moment Fabio is not the answer. DW will keep telling me Nelson Oliviera isn’t very good. But he’s a player in the similar mould to Raul who was cheap and available (financial elements are largely irrelevant when you’re spending £35m on an entirely unproven 18 year old). He would at least allow the rest of the team to function without us looking like we’re carrying an 18 year old.

Nope, Olivera isn't the required standard, he's about the same standard as Wesley.

We had a player who could play but he didn't want to stick around or develop himself in Cutrone. That's a player who technically and physically is far better player than Fabio is now and would be getting games but didn't have the mental ability.

You also don't but a back up you buy a player to compete with Raul. The majority thought Fabio would be that kid but it hasn't turned out that way.

Buying good players to fit in your system is hard, it should've been easier this year due to right schedules and fatigue guaranteeing play time.

Sadly or recruitment want good enough in hindsight but we have an opportunity to put that right.

Buying dreck like Olivera is never the answer.

 

[prawnking]

Darlo: It wasn't a genuine question though, was it? If anything Johnny's was the 'smart comment'

 

[AndyWolves]

It's not a personal attack on Fabio. I like the kid and I want him to be a star at Wolves.

He may be the best player in the world at 22, but it's not reasonable to ask us to wait four years to have an opinion on him or his signing!

It's a (mild) criticism of Nuno/the club.

If you're spending that much on a striker and it's your only striker signing then we don't really have the luxury of putting him in a cocoon for three or four years. We're Wolves, not an elite club.

If you don't think he's ready then, by all means sign him, but get someone else who can step in or share the load in the event that your only striker and star player has to miss some games

If he ends up as the best player in the world I'd happily wait 4 years!

He isn't ready to lead the line for us and shouldn't have been asked to but here we are, but that's not his fault.

As I said, I don't think it was expected that he would have to do the role he is performing. It's a gamble, but one we won't know the outcome of yet, certainly not after a handful of games

 

[darlowolf64]

It wasn't a genuine question though, was it?

I'm pretty sure that Johnny would like to have some names or he wouldn't have ask?