Wolves 1-1 Brighton: Verdict Thread

[slink]

I just don’t think there’s any defending how deep we dropped in that second half and the absolutely no chance you can defend taking off your striker at the time he did and not bringing the one you paid over £20m for. All proven by the fact that we then made attacking changes once they equalised. Surely the earlier changes were made because you thought that was the best way to win the game.

We haven’t got any real pace or ball carrying ability so you can’t drop that deep because there is no way out then. When you have the ball and the wind with you then you have to make the most of that by getting players around Larsen and playing off the second ball which i thought we did well when we did it and Brighton really struggled with.

I think the last 2 games have proved for all the faults in the squad we can compete but it’s those fine margins again and whether it’s those on or off the pitch we’re losing points but making individual errors.

There are promising signs if we can get a game over the line but that approach in the second half cannot be a blueprint moving forward. Players were also visibly annoyed by it particularly Larsen who looked puzzled when he came off and was fuming at the end.

 

[SSB]

I think it's Luis Miguel today. Vitor is somewhere in the hollows of the Billy Wright Stand.

What’s the rules if a manager is sent off? Can he not go and set himself up with all the commentary teams in the Billy Wright Stand and still have the use of laptops and earpieces to relay down to the dugout?

 

[basher]

Just got back...I can only echo those earlier sentiments in that the substitutions just fucked us royally.

First half we looked organised, whereas before we'd been an omnishambles.

Then for the second half, for whatever reason, the coaches thought they'd introduce some chaos to proceedings with the subs made and change in formation and sure enough we were on the back foot!

In saying, that Arias really had to score with the opportunity presented to him. Score that and I'm confident we win.

No excuse trying to defend and hold a lead with 40 minutes left in the game.

 

[AndyWolves]

I felt that the next goal in the game after ours was really pivotal to how our season would pan out.

I think it's actually the symptom though rather than the cause, we can't keep VP around if he's going to make these decisions

 

[Langers]

If they weren’t threatening as you say, you don’t start defending the edge of the area after 55 minutes.

Criminal tactics and no one needs to buck a trend by attempting to defend them. It is what it is. He’s cost us 4 points across the last two games.

Harsh to blame the 94th minute equaliser at Spurs on that. We played really well, no- one really to blame for that goal, and we'd have all taken a point beforehand.

And I genuinely don't think we concede today if we had better players who are able to pay attention to the game.

I'm not trying to be contrary here and I don't totally disagree with you - I just think there's some logic to trying to nullify the game when we're ahead. Especially when confidence is low and we don't have much of a threat on the counter.

Sadly we don't appear to have the players to see a game out without some sort of brain fart. I really felt for Johnstone, Krejci and Santi because they deserved a clean sheet today.

 

[Mel Evo]

I just don’t think there’s any defending how deep we dropped in that second half and the absolutely no chance you can defend taking off your striker at the time he did and not bringing the one you paid over £20m for. All proven by the fact that we then made attacking changes once they equalised. Surely the earlier changes were made because you thought that was the best way to win the game.

We haven’t got any real pace or ball carrying ability so you can’t drop that deep because there is no way out then. When you have the ball and the wind with you then you have to make the most of that by getting players around Larsen and playing off the second ball which i thought we did well when we did it and Brighton really struggled with.

I think the last 2 games have proved for all the faults in the squad we can compete but it’s those fine margins again and whether it’s those on or off the pitch we’re losing points but making individual errors.

There are promising signs if we can get a game over the line but that approach in the second half cannot be a blueprint moving forward. Players were also visibly annoyed by it particularly Larsen who looked puzzled when he came off and was fuming at the end.

JSL was livid and I wondered if it was more for who was replacing him than just him coming off.

Your point about the lack of real pace and ball carrying ability is spot on. It’s that context as well as seeing that we were capable of hurting Brighton that makes the changes unacceptable in my opinion.

 

[jd1981]

I'm going to be a bit controversial here and go against the grain - I sort of understand Vitor's decisions.

We BADLY need a win, and we were 1-0 up with not that much threat from Brighton. Indeed, after the tactical change they offered less, not many chances and credit due to Santi (fair fucks to this guy btw, I've been a vocal critic but he has been excellent of late) and Krejci. Johnstone also proving me wrong, playing well, deserves the shirt.

But they're not helped by the clown at right back who I thought was poor throughout, switches off after the corner (probably wasn't a corner but dunno why he's not seen it out) then simply doesn't pay attention for the short corner.

But I think the tactics made some sort of sense even if I didn't agree with them. They weren't threatening, we're low on confidence, we badly needed to win, and he's probably got more confidence in his back line than I have. Yes, frustrating to see but I sort of understood why he did it - we need points, so we tried to protect the very slender advantage we had. It didn't work. Please don't think this is me agreeing with the tactical change because it isn't.

We're better than we were a few weeks ago, I think points will come, but whether it'll be enough I really don't know.

VP signed and kept clown on all game.
Playing 5-5-0 for 25 minutes on a 1-0 lead is 1990’s stuff.
Points will come? Where? We’ve supposed to get points v Leeds but failed miserably after numerous people on here thought that a 1-0 defeat v Newcastle was a good effort.
It’s touch and go whether we get 20 points still thinking we have enough possibly to stay up is delusional and no evidence so far proves we’re good enough to be anyway.
Playing decent and not winning is equally as worrying as playing badly and being battered.
Fact remains we’ve picked next to nothing all season, players aren’t good enough, the manager is struggling to get the extra 10% out of them we desperately need.

 

[Jinky]

Harsh to blame the 94th minute equaliser at Spurs on that. We played really well, no- one really to blame for that goal, and we'd have all taken a point beforehand.

And I genuinely don't think we concede today if we had better players who are able to pay attention to the game.

I'm not trying to be contrary here and I don't totally disagree with you - I just think there's some logic to trying to nullify the game when we're ahead. Especially when confidence is low and we don't have much of a threat on the counter.

Sadly we don't appear to have the players to see a game out without some sort of brain fart. I really felt for Johnstone, Krejci and Santi because they deserved a clean sheet today.

The issue last week is there was no need for Vítor to put Toti on when we’re that close to seeing the game out. You sling another defender on and lose your shape. He had no instruction on where he’s supposed to play (he went to the LCB area and Krejci literally shoved him out the way to go somewhere else) - had we left him on the bench and kept our shape, there’s every conceivable chance the extra midfielder (that he took off) closes down the shot or cross and prevents the goal - as good a finish as it was. All hindsight, of course - but Vítor creates the issue by being overly negative and cautious.

That being said, I can see why we dropped deep and defended the edge of the box last week - it’s Spurs away. But after 55 minutes at home v Brighton when you’re 1-0 up? No.

This is a Brighton team who would have been only 4 points ahead of us had we held on for a win today. They were there for the taking and were miles off their best - yet Vítor’s got us setting up like some plucky league 2 side coming up against a Champions League outfit.

I agree wholeheartedly with your last point. Was gutted for them all, but in particular the three you mentioned. They deserved a clean sheet but equally, they can only do so much when they’re under instructions from the ultra negative man on the side.

 

[Carsy]

Im talking about indiviual players, not about of coachs.

The coach change the valoration of the players.

If you put Muntesi on FW and put R. Gomes and Hoever on defense, the valoration of that player turn down, and not are bad players. Only are playing on strange positions.

Are like Tolu and Larsen. If you have two good scorers, and tall player to win aireal duels, but are all time on defense, and dont put any good center on the area, its imposible to they play good.

And not are because they are bad players, only bad tactic, and lineups. And that made all player down the valorations.

Yes, you can’t be saying we’re individually better than Brighton surely?

 

[jd1981]

The trajectory of both clubs since Covid is a big neon sign into our managed decline.
Paul Batber was asking for the PL to be voided in May 2020 to preserve BHA pl status.
We were banging on the Europe as n door again.
Look at things now BHA have managed their situation properly.
We’ve managed it with an acceptance that we’ll be shit for a long time.

 

[sycophantia]

It's clearly poor game management today but my main concern is lack of goals and not much goal threat. What are we atm .6 of a goal per game? Just no where near enough.
I'm a fan of JSL and spent a chunk of last season (and some of this) defending him but he really needs a couple of goals. He's not played badly and tbf service into him has been appalling but he's our main goal threat.
After the summer business I think most of us were hopeful of Arias but felt he needed to hit the ground running, he's improving but if we're to stay up we need a lot more out of him.
We just dont have enough quality.
The only thing Ive got to hold on to is there are another 3 teams that are no better than us (currently).

 

[jd1981]

It's clearly poor game management today but my main concern is lack of goals and not much goal threat. What are we atm .6 of a goal per game? Just no where near enough.
I'm a fan of JSL and spent a chunk of last season (and some of this) defending him but he really needs a couple of goals. He's not played badly and tbf service into him has been appalling but he's our main goal threat.
After the summer business I think most of us were hopeful of Arias but felt he needed to hit the ground running, he's improving but if we're to stay up we need a lot more out of him.
We just dont have enough quality.
The only thing Ive got to hold on to is there are another 3 teams that are no better than us (currently).

You might find 1-2 but you definitely won’t find 3.
Difference this year compared to 2023 and last season is we had some xfactor game changers, they’ve all gone now.

 

[C.L.D]

It's definitely points lost and against our bogey side in Brighton too. Overall maybe we didn't deserve the three points. A fortuitous rebound off the crossbar for only goal, miss a sitter whilst the other team despite having a clear off day took their one chance that was handed on a platter. So definitely lost the opportunity had to win, on balance got the draw it deserved. Especially when you consider the last half hour.

I think the initial formation is the best we hope for currently but it really relies on creativity going forward which Andre/Gomes dont have and we know that's not Munetsi and Arias hasn't really shown he's creator (and definitely not a finisher). It's ok when you have the likes of Neves/Moutinho winning it and giving it to wingers like Jota or Neves but not with our lot.

Santi and Krejci is a good CB pairing, at least until Agba stops being Space Jammed. Who knows with these fullbacks. I think HBueno is our best at LB but needs improving and I guess we have to rely on Tchatchoua on right but it's not EPL quality stuff.

I think there are positive signs if we're comparing to the start of season and when managers do things we can see needs change, I think it highlights their adaptability but also I think VP also doesn't know his best XI and is not helping himself with he substitutions.

He could see Sa, Agba, Belle needing
dropping from starting XI but keeps selecting Hwang... There's no excuse to the formation change either for last third of the game.

 

[Jinky]

It's clearly poor game management today but my main concern is lack of goals and not much goal threat. What are we atm .6 of a goal per game? Just no where near enough.
I'm a fan of JSL and spent a chunk of last season (and some of this) defending him but he really needs a couple of goals. He's not played badly and tbf service into him has been appalling but he's our main goal threat.
After the summer business I think most of us were hopeful of Arias but felt he needed to hit the ground running, he's improving but if we're to stay up we need a lot more out of him.
We just dont have enough quality.
The only thing Ive got to hold on to is there are another 3 teams that are no better than us (currently).

Who are the three teams no better than us? I assume you’re including West Ham & Forest in that? Both of whom started the season below expected levels so sacked their managers (Nuno harshly) and are still above us. There’s an argument that Burnley are as bad - but I think you’re having to do some serious squinting after that - even towards the likes of Brentford who sold as many of their prized assets as we did. We have to win two games just to get out of the bottom three already and we’re only 7 games in to the season.

As for goals - it’s clear as day that JSL isn’t fit and Tolu is having to do his pre-season during actual games. I think Vitor will play them both up top eventually.

 

[sycophantia]

Who are the three teams no better than us? I assume you’re including West Ham & Forest in that? Both of whom started the season below expected levels so sacked their managers (Nuno harshly) and are still above us. There’s an argument that Burnley are as bad - but I think you’re having to do some serious squinting after that - even towards the likes of Brentford who sold as many of their prized assets as we did. We have to win two games just to get out of the bottom three already and we’re only 7 games in to the season.

As for goals - it’s clear as day that JSL isn’t fit and Tolu is having to do his pre-season during actual games. I think Vitor will play them both up top eventually.

Currently from what Ive seen Forest, West Ham and Burnley are no better than us. Whether they keep being so shit remains to be seen.
Despite their position, Sunderland also look very poor to me, luckily for them theyre already in double figures so have a chance.
If as you say Larsen is carrying an injury then not bringing Tolu on earlier is criminal, if he can't play for 45 minutes at this stage, we're in even deeper shit.
What ever anyone else does, we need to win our next 2 or we'll probably be cut adrift and it'll be tough to get out of that, I know that's hyperbolic but it all looks very gloomy to me.

 

[jd1981]

Currently from what Ive seen Forest, West Ham and Burnley are no better than us. Whether they keep being so shit remains to be seen.
Despite their position, Sunderland also look very poor to me, luckily for them theyre already in double figures so have a chance.
If as you say Larsen is carrying an injury then not bringing Tolu on earlier is criminal, if he can't play for 45 minutes at this stage, we're in even deeper shit.
What ever anyone else does, we need to win our next 2 or we'll probably be cut adrift and it'll be tough to get out of that, I know that's hyperbolic but it all looks very gloomy to me.

Sorry you’re living in a dream world a competent manager will get Forest to mid table they still have better players than us.
West Ham have a better head coach than us, they still have a couple of very good players like Bowen and Paqueta who will tight games for them.
Burnley I’ll give you Leeds maybe, how have Sunderland fluked it to double figures?
I think there’s a vast over estimation of our players or under estimate of how bad they’re.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

And you keep catastrophising about us getting <20 points, so y'know.

 

[jd1981]

And you keep catastrophising about us getting <20 points, so y'know.

No evidence to suggest otherwise currently

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

We got 25 in 2011/12 and we're nothing like that bad.

We're in trouble, there's a real chance we'll go this year, arguably we deserve to with how we've chosen to run the club since 2020 but we're nowhere near as bad as you say we are.

 

[sycophantia]

Sorry you’re living in a dream world a competent manager will get Forest to mid table they still have better players than us.
West Ham have a better head coach than us, they still have a couple of very good players like Bowen and Paqueta who will tight games for them.
Burnley I’ll give you Leeds maybe, how have Sunderland fluked it to double figures?
I think there’s a vast over estimation of our players or under estimate of how bad they’re.

I dont think I'm over estimating any of our players, I dont think any of them look like Premier league players apart from Krejci, Andre and Gomes. We know Larson can do it but so far he can't buy a goal, as said he looks like hes not fully fit.
I dont think Forest have better players than us overall.
West Ham could improve as they have a good coach and a game changer in Bowen.
As for Sunderland, I can only go on what Ive seen and they look poor to me. As I said I think they'll be OK cos of the start they've had.
Your probably right in that I'm clutching at straws, it's all Ive got atm.