Wolves 1-4 Brighton: Verdict Thread

[Tony Towner]

Less important, more humiliating would be my take, but agree last year has gone. The ability to concede a number of goals in quick succession with the same group irrespective of manager is a concern though. Three times in a few months

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

If you have a keeper who saves very little with a penchant for a total howler at random and a centre half who can't run, turn or jump and is permanently half a yard at least away from where he should be, these things will happen.

It's not a fault, it's a feature.

 

[Alan]

Less important, more humiliating would be my take, but agree last year has gone. The ability to concede a number of goals in quick succession with the same group irrespective of manager is a concern though. Three times in a few months

This is the reason why I bring up Lop in the context of the O'Neil conversation.

We're not 19th because of O'Neil's tactics as much as we are because our starting CBs can scarcely execute the basics for 90 minutes. Lop didn't fix that and O'Neil is left holding the bag.

We all know who is actually to blame for our pish defense and it isn't a manager.

 

[PuntsWolf]

I’m getting a bit fed up of some of the nonsense on here just because it suits the narrative.

The game was lost on the second goal. That was nothing to do with systems or naivety. It was because Kilman switched off. Striker dropping deep and spinning into space is a tactic since forever, utilised well by fluid teams like Brighton. A tame shot Sa tried to hold but didn’t and then a cut back to a guy in acres of space because Nunes didn’t track him. Goal scorers run off midifielders all the time, we just never used to fucking do it so didn’t score any goals.

The other two the FBs could have just stayed goal side of there men, they didn’t for some reason.

Basic fucking errors the manager can’t change unless we go back to a back 7 where we will still lose and be bored shitless doing it.

 

[Paul]

I'm going on holiday next week. You'll have to be the 2008 Sam Vokes to my Chris Iwelumo.

At least give him Jemal Johnson, he's done some really good stuff once or twice, the rest................................

 

[Alan]

At least give him Jemal Johnson, he's done some really good stuff once or twice, the rest................................

That's Jacksonville Armada Legend Jemal Johnson, please.

I kid, though he was playing there when I moved to Jacksonville circa 2015.

 

[Alan]

I’m getting a bit fed up of some of the nonsense on here just because it suits the narrative.

The game was lost on the second goal. That was noting to do with systems or naivety. It was because Kilman switched off. Striker dropping deep and spinning into space is a tactic since forever, utilised well by fluid teams like Brighton. A tame shot Sa tried to hold but didn’t and then a cut back to a guy in acres of space because Nunes didn’t track him. Goal scorers run off midifielders all the time, we just never used to fucking do it so didn’t score any goals.

The other two the FBs could have just stayed goal side of there men, they didn’t for some reason.

Basic fucking errors the manager can’t change unless we go back to a back 7 where we will still lose and be bored shitless doing it.

Need a chili pepper reaction emoji for this. Spicy!

 

[prawnking]

I’m getting a bit fed up of some of the nonsense on here just because it suits the narrative.

The game was lost on the second goal. That was nothing to do with systems or naivety. It was because Kilman switched off. Striker dropping deep and spinning into space is a tactic since forever, utilised well by fluid teams like Brighton. A tame shot Sa tried to hold but didn’t and then a cut back to a guy in acres of space because Nunes didn’t track him. Goal scorers run off midifielders all the time, we just never used to fucking do it so didn’t score any goals.

The other two the FBs could have just stayed goal side of there men, they didn’t for some reason.

Basic fucking errors the manager can’t change unless we go back to a back 7 where we will still lose and be bored shitless doing it.

So no manager is capable of mitigating against their players' individual weaknesses and creating an effective team better than the sum of its parts??

 

[MARKakaJIM]

So no manager is capable of mitigating against their players' individual weaknesses and creating an effective team better than the sum of its parts??

Only so much you can do to mitigate for players not being arsed to do their jobs and that directly caused at least two of the goals against.

 

[prawnking]

So as well as not being able to improve or organise players, a manager can't focus and motivate them either? Makes you wonder why we even bother with them

 

[PuntsWolf]

Wouldn’t have been acceptable in Stourbridge league U13s for a fucking FB to jog behind the only attacker, who was just waiting for the ball across and should have been diagnosed 5 seconds before if happned. It was a fucking shit ball across too, if he’d been in the same postcode he’d have stopped it.

Same for Ait Nouri allowing March in ahead of him when he had one fucking job.

Guess he’s going to have to get the “stay goal side of your attacker” drill out this week with a side helping of “if in doubt, kick it out” to make sure he’s set them up properly.

 

[prawnking]

So what's your 'narrative' then?

Our players are shit so that's that?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I mean I would say Max Kilman and Craig Dawson is not an acceptable starting CH combo when you have a whole summer to sort it out.

Spot the problem with it! Should take around 3 seconds. Incidentally quicker than it takes Max to turn around and move.

 

[Alan]

Only so much you can do to mitigate for players not being arsed to do their jobs and that directly caused at least two of the goals against.

Tbf I don't think our problem has almost ever been the players "not being arsed". The likes of Kilman simply can't execute at this level. It really is as simple as that, IMO.

If we had two CBs who were both GO's picks and we were still shipping those ridiculous goals, then it becomes much more credible to level the fuck ups against the manager as well as the player(s). As it is, Lop couldn't fix Kilman so I doubt GO can. So the simple answer becomes, "get in some players who either can be fixed or don't need fixing in the first place".

We've seen what Fosun apparently think about that.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Tbf I don't think our problem has almost ever been the players "not being arsed". The likes of Kilman simply can't execute at this level. It really is as simple as that, IMO.

If we had two CBs who were both GO's picks and we were still shipping those ridiculous goals, then it becomes much more credible to level the fuck ups against the manager as well as the player(s). As it is, Lop couldn't fix Kilman so I doubt GO can. So the simple answer becomes, "get in some players who either can be fixed or don't need fixing in the first place".

We've seen what Fosun apparently think about that.

Nunes' tracking on the second goal and RAN on the third is nothing but a matter of effort, they're both goal side and in good positions when the moves start but they just phone it in and let their men run past them to get the ball. Unless we consider that they're so stupid they don't realize the implications of letting their men beat them to the ball inside their own penalty area then I don't know what other conclusion we can draw there?

 

[PuntsWolf]

So what's your 'narrative' then?

Our players are shit so that's that?

My narrative?

Well it’s not having a pre conceived opinion for starters then fuelled by confirmation bias at best and drivel at worst.

I watch the game and give an opinion. We restricted Man Utd to very little and with 6/10 finishing ability would have won the game or got at least a point.

Those same players then managed to actually restrict Brighton to very little outside of some great play/dreadful defending for the Mitoma goal (it can be both, often is) and we deserved to be at least Level if we’d again finished at a 6/10 level in the first half.

Then we follow that up Straight after HT with some 1/10 defending and the games gone. Chuck in some more 1/10 defending and forward play for good measure and it’s 1-4.

I feel if players had performed at an average level for their ability we wouldn’t be looking at 0 points and -4 GD despite on paper playing two good teams. I’m hoping they won’t continue in that vein because we can’t sign anyone and have very little else in the squad to change things up. Or if they do continue at that level it would still be enough to get past the likes of Everton.

If players can’t be arsed to stay goal side of forwards, strikers can’t score open goals or 1v1s then I’m not sure what the manager can do to change that without signing players or playing a low block back 7 which IMO would be just as unsuccessful, boring along the way and he’d still get pelters.

 

[Wolftone]

Nunes' tracking on the second goal and RAN on the third is nothing but a matter of effort, they're both goal side and in good positions when the moves start but they just phone it in and let their men run past them to get the ball. Unless we consider that they're so stupid they don't realize the implications of letting their men beat them to the ball inside their own penalty area then I don't know what other conclusion we can draw there?

I called Nunes a Rolls Royce of a player a few weeks back. He's got bags of ability.
But sorry, after Saturday, he's an Alfa Romeo. Looks good, but unreliable temperamental and untrustworthy.
One thing Lopetegui didn't do was keep picking Ait Nouri. He's a loose canon. Get Bueno in.

 

[Alan]

Nunes' tracking on the second goal and RAN on the third is nothing but a matter of effort, they're both goal side and in good positions when the moves start but they just phone it in and let their men run past them to get the ball. Unless we consider that they're so stupid they don't realize the implications of letting their men beat them to the ball inside their own penalty area then I don't know what other conclusion we can draw there?

I'd chalk it up to a lack of tactical awareness before saying the players weren't putting in the proper effort.

Knowing what to do in a situation is different from recognizing that situation developing in real time.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I'd chalk it up to a lack of tactical awareness before saying the players weren't putting in the proper effort.

Knowing what to do in a situation is different from recognizing that situation developing in real time.

If they lack that level of understanding they shouldn't have ever been given professional contacts, honestly, it's schoolyard stuff they've failed at there.

 

[Alan]

@MARKakaJIM

Happy to agree to disagree.

I'd argue similar if it's an effort thing; there's no place for taking minutes off.