• Welcome, guest!

    This is a forum devoted to discussion of Wolverhampton Wanderers.
    Why not sign up and contribute? Registered members get a fully ad-free experience!

Wolves 0-1 Norwich (FA Cup 4th Rd): Verdict Thread

Deutsch Wolf

*Funny User Title Coming Soon*
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
93,925
Reaction score
8,535
Nuno's team had a peak Boly and Jota

With Jota gone and injuries to Raul, Boly and Neto the team is nowhere near as strong. Add to that piss poor recruitment and Bruno is clearly overperforming with this squad.
Hang on. Surely Kilman's form (so good that TWF will collectively have a good old cry if he doesn't get picked for England next month) negates at least one of those?

Are Sa, Semedo and Ait-Nouri part of said poor recruitment, because people would generally have at least two if not all three of those ahead of who was there previously, I'd have thought?

He isn't overachieving, not really.
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
2,264
Reaction score
1,066
Sa is better for our STYLE than Rui - ability is about the same
Semedo is a better defender(just) than Doc but his goal scoring is significantly worse as is his creation.
Ait-Nouri is not a better defender than Jonny and I would also say he is less creative. Jonny is great on our left.

Kilman is no better than Boly in his pomp which got the latter international recognition. Sadly covid and injury have knocked him right back.

Collectively the squad is not better for me.
 

Johnny75

Dave Edwards / Steve Corica / Seyi / Darren Fergu
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
29,585
Reaction score
4,455
Hang on. Surely Kilman's form (so good that TWF will collectively have a good old cry if he doesn't get picked for England next month) negates at least one of those?

Are Sa, Semedo and Ait-Nouri part of said poor recruitment, because people would generally have at least two if not all three of those ahead of who was there previously, I'd have thought?

He isn't overachieving, not really.
Of course he is.

The squad and first team are weaker than Nuno's team which laboured to a low mid-table finish last season and far weaker than Nuno's great first and second season in the PL.

I don't understand how you can even think that Pod, Trincao and injured Raul are anywhere near the attacking force of Jota and Raul. The stats don't bear it out and neither does the eye test.

Whatever anybody thinks of Doc he contributed to goals as did Dendoncker.

Semedo is a better full back but doesn't score or assist and Donk has gone to shit. Add to that the club keep buying non-scoring players to play up front. The only recruitment positive is getting RAN in, which wouldn't have happened if Jonny was fit.

We can't even mention the fact we bought a player for a club record fee who doesn't look like being anything other than a flop without somebody getting irate about it.

Bruno needs to get goals from somewhere but let's not pretend he has been backed.
 

Johnny75

Dave Edwards / Steve Corica / Seyi / Darren Fergu
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
29,585
Reaction score
4,455
Sa is better for our STYLE than Rui - ability is about the same
Semedo is a better defender(just) than Doc but his goal scoring is significantly worse as is his creation.
Ait-Nouri is not a better defender than Jonny and I would also say he is less creative. Jonny is great on our left.

Kilman is no better than Boly in his pomp which got the latter international recognition. Sadly covid and injury have knocked him right back.

Collectively the squad is not better for me.
I should've said our attacking recruitment has been piss poor.
 

The Bear

Euro 2012 PTG Champion
Staff member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
49,644
Reaction score
2,828
We're far less successful but better?
We haven't had a full season under Bruno yet to have any recognised success.

To use your comparison, Brighton play much better football but we are a better balanced team with better results.

Nuno had better forward players, but Bruno has a slightly better defence. Yet we are getting results like the recent January run that we wouldn't IMO have done under Nuno without an in form front three.
 

Tony Towner

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
26,662
Reaction score
9,076
A team who doesn't score goals is over performing in 8th. I dont think Raul is the same player at the moment, there's glimpses like post his Southampton penalty, but he's too often a none factor. Trincao, Podence and Troare have 1 league goal between them, our wing backs have zero. Moutinho and Neves aren't going to contribute much although they will give us the odd quality goal - Brentford being a freak example. Hwang had a purple patch, but it looks like that's what it was, so all hope fall on Neto.

We could be more expansive, we would score more goals but in all likelihood concede more, but the players we have aren't ever going to be free scoring, which again goes back to recruitment.

That's not to say he's been perfect, there have been a number of performances which were sub standard irrespective of any of the above - Palace, Norwich twice, Leeds, Burnley, but on balance the good has outweighed the bad
 

The Bear

Euro 2012 PTG Champion
Staff member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
49,644
Reaction score
2,828
I don't think being more expansive necessarily means more goals conceded.

We created loads of chances in our first three games yet only lost them 0-1. Add in Kilman and Sa's form since then and I reckon we could cope. It's just whether we could actually score more, which is doubtful.
 

Deutsch Wolf

*Funny User Title Coming Soon*
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
93,925
Reaction score
8,535
2018/19: P21 W8 D5 L8 F23 A25 Pts 29 (9th)
2019/20: P21 W7 D9 L5 F30 A27 Pts 30 (7th)
2020/21: P21 W6 D5 L10 F21 A30 Pts 23 (14th)
2021/22: P21 W10 D4 L7 F19 A16 Pts 34 (8th)

Anyone looking at that objectively and with the team name deleted would say that 2020/21 was an anomaly (and seek to dig deeper to find out why it was) and say that Unnamed Town FC had a current natural level of upper mid table.

They'd be pretty unlikely to say that the last set of data was wildly more impressive than the first two sets - especially if they knew that in Set B the team was playing a load more games besides what they had in the league (and winning most of them too). They'd probably not be clamouring to watch Unnamed Town FC this season because on paper they look fucking boring.
 

Wilf Wolf

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2011
Messages
2,923
Reaction score
1,448
At the moment we’re doing better than most of us expected and I bet most people thought we’d be bringing in more than we did at the time they made their predictions. Surely Bruno deserves some credit for that?
 

Attachments

  • 17EED098-3C72-481E-9D58-682717854316.png
    17EED098-3C72-481E-9D58-682717854316.png
    542.6 KB · Views: 12

Johnny75

Dave Edwards / Steve Corica / Seyi / Darren Fergu
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
29,585
Reaction score
4,455
2018/19: P21 W8 D5 L8 F23 A25 Pts 29 (9th)
2019/20: P21 W7 D9 L5 F30 A27 Pts 30 (7th)
2020/21: P21 W6 D5 L10 F21 A30 Pts 23 (14th)
2021/22: P21 W10 D4 L7 F19 A16 Pts 34 (8th)

Anyone looking at that objectively and with the team name deleted would say that 2020/21 was an anomaly (and seek to dig deeper to find out why it was) and say that Unnamed Town FC had a current natural level of upper mid table.

They'd be pretty unlikely to say that the last set of data was wildly more impressive than the first two sets. They'd probably not be clamouring to watch Unnamed Town FC this season because on paper they look fucking boring.
If you were looking at it superficially then yes.

But that isn't the case is it for all the reasons I've mentioned previously.

To achieve the same with less is impressive for Bruno.
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
2,264
Reaction score
1,066
2018/19: P21 W8 D5 L8 F23 A25 Pts 29 (9th)
2019/20: P21 W7 D9 L5 F30 A27 Pts 30 (7th)
2020/21: P21 W6 D5 L10 F21 A30 Pts 23 (14th)
2021/22: P21 W10 D4 L7 F19 A16 Pts 34 (8th)

Anyone looking at that objectively and with the team name deleted would say that 2020/21 was an anomaly (and seek to dig deeper to find out why it was) and say that Unnamed Town FC had a current natural level of upper mid table.

They'd be pretty unlikely to say that the last set of data was wildly more impressive than the first two sets - especially if they knew that in Set B the team was playing a load more games besides what they had in the league (and winning most of them too). They'd probably not be clamouring to watch Unnamed Town FC this season because on paper they look fucking boring.
points total = 29+30+23+34= 116

Divide by four for our average=29 points

We are over performing by 5 points.
 

Deutsch Wolf

*Funny User Title Coming Soon*
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
93,925
Reaction score
8,535
At the moment we’re doing better than most of us expected and I bet most people thought we’d be bringing in more than we did at the time they made their predictions. Surely Bruno deserves some credit for that?
He does deserve credit, though my prediction wasn't because I thought we had a weak squad. It was because we were bringing in someone with a managerial CV that would struggle to run to a page.

He's exceeded my (and most people's) expectations in that respect as he's clearly a competent manager. But he isn't working magic here. We have a better starting central midfield than 75%+ of the division for a start.
 

Deutsch Wolf

*Funny User Title Coming Soon*
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
93,925
Reaction score
8,535
If you were looking at it superficially then yes.

But that isn't the case is it for all the reasons I've mentioned previously.

To achieve the same with less is impressive for Bruno.
And I think you vastly overstate that case, but I'm not going to keep going round in circles about it. Suffice to say that I think we have overall better defenders now than we had then (if you take us as playing a back five) and that cancels out the loss in attacking threat (which lest we forget, is of our own choice and own making).

He isn't achieving the same anyway as we're out of all cup competitions by the first week of February.
 

Johnny75

Dave Edwards / Steve Corica / Seyi / Darren Fergu
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
29,585
Reaction score
4,455
And I think you vastly overstate that case, but I'm not going to keep going round in circles about it. Suffice to say that I think we have overall better defenders now than we had then (if you take us as playing a back five) and that cancels out the loss in attacking threat (which lest we forget, is of our own choice and own making).

He isn't achieving the same anyway as we're out of all cup competitions by the first week of February.
That's the most frustrating bit and clearly the part Bruno is most pissed off about.
 

Johnny75

Dave Edwards / Steve Corica / Seyi / Darren Fergu
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
29,585
Reaction score
4,455
:) cant win. If Nunos last season was an anomaly for being 6-7 points down , how is this season not an anomaly for being 6 points up and therefore overperforming?
Because that's not how statistics work.
 

Jinky

Has better things to do and a life. Also a total a
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
30,231
Reaction score
3,184
B00CA824-9127-47A6-9C81-D540EB3E3273.jpeg
He’s on no radars though so we’re alright.
 
Top