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Wolves 0-3 Brighton: Verdict Thread

I don't think you can give the players such an easy ride. Even if you put a Sunday League manager in charge of them they should know what they're capable of rather than being dragged down to whatever level they're being coached at.

Lage has done little to gain any credit but I do think he's become a magnet for anything negative lately and gets the blame for pretty much everything. Take the Leeds game as an example, he did nothing tactically after the Jimenez sending off but to my mind at least his tactics weren't directly responsible for any of the goals. They were all shitty individual errors, more than one for each goal too, that no tactical setup is ever going to be able to account for. The last in particular from a set piece it's completely removed from anything in the manager in my opinion, nothing he could've done there to stop Boly and Dendoncker completely throwing that away.

If you felt you were being sold down the river by management at work, being asked to do something you considered wrong would you blindly follow it or would you challenge it? It sounds like today the players largely went for the secret third option of doing absolutely fuck all for the most part instead which is completely unacceptable.

I remember something before with Henry talking about some game when he was at Barca. Pep had told him he had to keep making a particular run but as the game progressed Henry grew frustrated that his run was easily covered off every time and there was space elsewhere, so he went rogue made a different run and that lead to a goal. Apparently Pep tore him and new one at half time and maybe even subbed him off for not following the plan. Shame no-one at Wolves seems to have anything like that level of conviction, either in the coaching or playing staff, none of them seem to give much of a fuck about anything at the moment.
We’ll you’re quite possibly right. I have to say I like your posts, even though I disagree with a good number, and I’d aspire to something as coherent as this and your other good post from a few minutes ago. I’m too angry for that level though I’m sorry to say.

That said, while it would be nice to see some organic leadership on the pitch, personally my own experience is that it’s all about clarity of message from the top. That’s what I expect from a decent leader, and I suspect that lack of authority and perhaps confidence has led to over reliance on analysis, or plain gobbledegook, which becomes counter-productive. A good deal of supposition you may reply and perhaps you’re right. Oh well, good Manager good team I say, that way round. Get a good guy in tomorrow and see an improvement, not a cosmetic or short term one either. Simple decision for me. It should be for the board too.
 
They were all shitty individual errors, more than one for each goal too, that no tactical setup is ever going to be able to account for. The last in particular from a set piece it's completely removed from anything in the manager in my opinion, nothing he could've done there to stop Boly and Dendoncker completely throwing that away.
If your tactics mean the ball keeps coming back at you time after time the likelihood of an individual error in your own box rises significantly. If you've got the ball the opposition score less. Teams regularly have players sent off, they don't usually throw away a two goal lead but we kept Hwang and Trincao on the pitch and capitulated.
 
Lage has done little to gain any credit but I do think he's become a magnet for anything negative lately and gets the blame for pretty much everything. Take the Leeds game as an example, he did nothing tactically after the Jimenez sending off but to my mind at least his tactics weren't directly responsible for any of the goals.
I respect you way too much to actually think you believe this Mark. You are 2-0 the first thing you do is put a centre forward on to hold the ball up. Is he responsible for RAN getting caught under the ball, Saiss air shotting, Sa racing out or Boly letting a ball bounce in the box? No. Did he set the agenda for all that to happen? Yes. It's also an example of Coady's on field leadership being overblown.
 
Responsibility is culpable but it’s always the manager who takes the hit. Some of our players are either not good enough anymore or never were for PL football. Saiss, Boly, Donk, Hwang, Trincao, Raul and Fabio are in that category. A poor summer window will see us at least be in a relegation and probably worse.
 
Maybe Leeds was where the players finally lost it with Lage
 
I respect you way too much to actually think you believe this Mark. You are 2-0 the first thing you do is put a centre forward on to hold the ball up. Is he responsible for RAN getting caught under the ball, Saiss air shotting, Sa racing out or Boly letting a ball bounce in the box? No. Did he set the agenda for all that to happen? Yes. It's also an example of Coady's on field leadership being overblown.
I'd say he is responsible for Saiss as he was clearly concussed and shouldn't have been on the pitch.

The rest I agree with you.
 
What was the atmosphere like today? Any booing, chants about getting Lage out etc
 
Subbing Fabio got booed.

Boos at HT and FT although there weren't many left at the end.

Not much else but I do think the tide is turning. I know very few people who actively like him, I think he's awful (I hide it well) and more and more are heading that way.
 
What was the atmosphere like today? Any booing, chants about getting Lage out etc
Boos at half time. Ground begun to empty after 2nd goal with a huge clear out after the 3rd. There were also (I think) sarcastic cheers for our first shot on target in the second half.

I thought the atmosphere felt a bit discontented after 10 minutes with it progressively getting worse but my friend didn’t see it in the same way. Would be interested to see what others thought.
 
Oh yeah, our first (and only) shot on target on 84 minutes got jeered.

It's fucking awful football.
 
I was a stream wanker today (I’m only joking!) From how it sounded on there, crowd were semi up for it from the start (they weren’t really but it was the half hearted token ‘Bruno lage’s barmy army’ like it has been at most games). Then after 10 minutes of being camped in our half and not touching the ball it went flat and continued. Then we had a spell where Hwang broke forward and had a few corners (RAN crossed it at shin height 😭😭) and it was ok trying to get us going , then it was penaltyville and it went south from there.
 
Fans fed off the lethargy of the performance, any flack dished out today was warranted in fact it could’ve been much worse a good proportion of this squad bar probably Saiss and Coady have never experienced a toxic Molineux. In the last 3 games how many clear cut chances have we created? Or at least how many times have you been out your seat with excitement?
Playing a more aesthetically pleasing type of football always buys you more time with your fan base. We’ve played prime Pulis ball the last 3 games minus the ability to be organised defensively. Playing pragmatism literally means you’re 3-4 games from crisis point.
 
Felt the crowd were frustrated by the passivity early doors, then sensed we got out of jail with penalty one so tried to lift the players but they didn't meet us anywhere near halfway and then things dropped off a cliff after penalty two and apathy reigned. Bit of discontent at HT but the apathy started morphing into anger the longer the shitshow of a second half progressed.

If they announce ticket prices before Norwich/City and people are faced with prices with no rebate or even more for the privilege of this football I think it'll turn nasty.
 
We’ll you’re quite possibly right. I have to say I like your posts, even though I disagree with a good number, and I’d aspire to something as coherent as this and your other good post from a few minutes ago. I’m too angry for that level though I’m sorry to say.

That said, while it would be nice to see some organic leadership on the pitch, personally my own experience is that it’s all about clarity of message from the top. That’s what I expect from a decent leader, and I suspect that lack of authority and perhaps confidence has led to over reliance on analysis, or plain gobbledegook, which becomes counter-productive. A good deal of supposition you may reply and perhaps you’re right. Oh well, good Manager good team I say, that way round. Get a good guy in tomorrow and see an improvement, not a cosmetic or short term one either. Simple decision for me. It should be for the board too.

I'd agree a good manager will make the most of what he's got and combine it into something better than the sum of it's parts. There does seem to be a lot of suggestion though, not necessarily from yourself, than Lage is having the opposite effect and stripping any usefulness out of the players all together. Personally I don't think bad management can have such a pronounced negative effect as good management can have a positive effect. Not without wilful compliance from those acting beneath management anyway.

In the case of these team, littered with experienced pros who've been around top clubs and international sides, they should be capable of at least playing some semi-coherent football between themselves without any outside input. That should be the base level which no amount of bad coaching should ever see them dip below but he we are watching them stroll around like strangers with no-one having any real inclination to do anything proactive.

It doesn't appear at the moment that anyone could look themselves in the mirror and say they're doing their best.

If your tactics mean the ball keeps coming back at you time after time the likelihood of an individual error in your own box rises significantly. If you've got the ball the opposition score less. Teams regularly have players sent off, they don't usually throw away a two goal lead but we kept Hwang and Trincao on the pitch and capitulated.

Forgive me but there's some guesswork in this as I don't believe the data to support me exists or at least I can't find it so I've had to make some assumptions.

It's true that teams don't always capitulate with 10 men, I'd hazard it's also true that they rarely manage prolonged periods of possession as their primary means of defending that position. We've seen it countless times with Wolves on the other side of that situation, dominating possession with an opponent dropped into organised lines and waiting to see what gets thrown at them. Teams do see those games out with little more than a deep backline and a determined attitude.

Think it would be somewhat generous to give RAN the let off of mental fatigue or even pure weight of odds for his mistake given it occured less than 10 minutes after the red card. He just fucked up. As did Saiss on the rebound being caught flat footed.

Same opinion on the winner too, for me there's no fatigue at play there either mental or physical. You've chucked away 2 goals and 2 points but you're into stoppage with one last scrap of honour and reward to play for. Don't, Willy Boly, stand idly by and let me the ball from on the corner of your 6 yard box and let and opponent take it away from you. He should've cleared that 1000 times out of a 1000.

I was hoping I could find a 1st/2nd half breakdown of stats to support this final point but instead I'll have to rely on my interpretation of the game and overall stats.


Most data there is fairly evenly matched between the sides. Possession, shots, shots on target, touches, passes, clearances, not a great deal in any of those. Now whilst the scoreline was in Wolves' favour prior to the red card and they were clearly decent value for it, I don't recall them being hugely dominant up to that point. Would've killed for some 1st half stats to enlighten me. So if Leeds were so dominant for 40 minutes after the red, I'd have expected the stats to swing more clearly in their favour overall. Again, wish I had some 2nd half stats to get a clearer picture on that. I don't recall it really being a relentless barrage from the moment Jimenez departed, I don't think they can say they even earnt their goals from sheer persistence and repetition of effort. For me it was more a case of speculative balls forward and rank bad individual defending.

I respect you way too much to actually think you believe this Mark. You are 2-0 the first thing you do is put a centre forward on to hold the ball up. Is he responsible for RAN getting caught under the ball, Saiss air shotting, Sa racing out or Boly letting a ball bounce in the box? No. Did he set the agenda for all that to happen? Yes. It's also an example of Coady's on field leadership being overblown.

I think the notion of holding the ball up is something of a misnomer these days. How often really do you see a long ball go up to an isolated forward where he can back into a defender off, get it under control and hold them off for 4-5 seconds to people to get up the pitch? I don't think it's really a thing in that sense anymore, the games too fast for that, defenders too athletic to allow it to happen. Even if it were still a thing, what players in Wolves' arsenal could've done that?

We could talk about having a focal point like Fabio up there opposed to Hwang or Trincao who I guess nominally played up top second half but is the end result any different? The service to him will be dogshit by this point, he'll have next to zero support so even as someone who rates Silva as a player, I don't see what respite he really offers in this situation, it's a placebo at best.

Given it's press happy Leeds in question too, now with a man advantage, where was there likely to be any real opportunity to play out and get a breather? Even if Fabio was peak Drogba the rest of the team had already shit their ring the second they saw the red card come out, their heads had gone completely. The best you could probably hope for was Leeds over committing and maybe getting a foot race down the channels from some aimless punt upfield, something Hwang is probably better qualifed for than Fabio anyway.
 
Boos at half time. Ground begun to empty after 2nd goal with a huge clear out after the 3rd. There were also (I think) sarcastic cheers for our first shot on target in the second half.

I thought the atmosphere felt a bit discontented after 10 minutes with it progressively getting worse but my friend didn’t see it in the same way. Would be interested to see what others thought.
The atmosphere was shit, not toxic, just shit. The North Bank, although sat right next to the away fans, were mute the whole game. We have 4 stands which are so disconnected that, unless the old gold are playing a blinder on the pitch or the South Bank are at the very top of their game, it's very difficult to describe Molineux as anything other than a dreary place, I'm afraid.
 
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They didn't play up top, they continued to stay wide. We literally belted the ball down the middle to nobody for it to come back again. He had zero idea or plan to manage that game after the sending off.
 
I'd agree a good manager will make the most of what he's got and combine it into something better than the sum of it's parts. There does seem to be a lot of suggestion though, not necessarily from yourself, than Lage is having the opposite effect and stripping any usefulness out of the players all together. Personally I don't think bad management can have such a pronounced negative effect as good management can have a positive effect. Not without wilful compliance from those acting beneath management anyway.

In the case of these team, littered with experienced pros who've been around top clubs and international sides, they should be capable of at least playing some semi-coherent football between themselves without any outside input. That should be the base level which no amount of bad coaching should ever see them dip below but he we are watching them stroll around like strangers with no-one having any real inclination to do anything proactive.
What your forgetting though is this is the top Level. 1% is massive. I’m sure you’ve played with people who have turned pro and people you thought would turn pro but didn’t. I’ve seen “kick it and hoof it” CBs at professional level be technical specimens up front in the youth game and I’ve seen players pass/run rings round me struggle to make it professionally whilst players who were ‘Average’ end up having championship /brief PL careers.

All these players are very good at this level. Set them up badly, bad prep, bad coaching etc. and that 1% can make them look like competition winners.

I’m sure if I asked Hwang to come down 442 for some 5 a side his touch would be like glue!
 
It was our worst defeat of the season. It was thoroughly deserved. Time for huge changes.
 
From Brighton's forum:
"We were decent but Wolves were shockingly bad. One of the worst performances I've seen in the Premier League."

"I never say that, but in this instance they WERE bad, and we took advantage. You must have been able to see Wolves didn't press the ball well, get in to good positions, put much effort in to track back etc. All of these attributes are independent of our level of performance."

"Wolves were awful and not simply because we made them look it. We won't have many matches that easy, so well done us for making the most of it, controlling the match and deservedly winning easily. The scoreline didn't flatter us at all. We could have had more than three."
 
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