Coronavirus

[Templeton Peck]

Priti Patel is making it illegal to protest. Now that's something worth worrying about.

 

[Papper]

He'll let you know once he's read 1984 for the umpteenth time

Well Cambridge Wolf mentioned the ' big brother feel ' of vaccine passports on his recent trip. Maybe you should ask him.

 

[Papper]

How are you making sure the vulnerable get vaccinated? What do you do when the uptake is low?

Well it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out who the most vulnerable are given the stats. I believe the average age of death from covid is approximately 80. If the uptake is low then these people are placing themselves at grave risk. Their choice.

 

[Papper]

Same viral load but for a shorter amount of time

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/

Yes 38% chance of passing it on to unvaccinated and 25% chance to those vaccinated. Suggestion there that if you are vulnerable having the vaccine improves your chances of resisting the virus by 13% . Not sure the globe needs state mandated vaccines, control of what enters your body and the rejection of people from society (based on this evidence). Have they isolated this virus yet ?

 

[Papper]

By definition, being unvaccinated against a highly contagious virus makes you a threat to others.

Or alternatively being vulnerable and unvaccinated puts you at greater risk from others ( including those who have been vaccinated ).

This is no reason for any state to control what is injected in people (the vast majority of whom have extremely minimal risk of severe illness) or they lose their jobs and cease being able to live their life as social beings. I do not and never will subscribe to this immoral and evil totalitarianism or the fear factor that is propagated through the media. The bi-product of the dystopian rules and restrictions are beginning to come home to roost.

 

[Papper]

Wife and her cousin came back on the train from London this afternoon, very few people wearing masks at all, in fact they felt odd ones out wearing them

They have worn the type 2 masks in Germany for many months on public transport in Germany and it has had no effect whatsoever.

 

[Papper]

Maybe I'm massively worried over nothing, maybe in 5 years it'll just be a memory all this, but I really feel deep down that something sinister is stirring.

Historic lessons have not be learned. In the 30's a section of society was demonized put behind fences, removed from society and persecuted. People knew what was happening, they had been told prior and they did nothing about it. They were subservient and obedient to the tyranny. The tyranny did not last and this won't either.

 

[darlowolf64]

Historic lessons have not be learned. In the 30's a section of society was demonized put behind fences, removed from society and persecuted. People knew what was happening, they had been told prior and they did nothing about it. They were subservient and obedient to the tyranny. The tyranny did not last and this won't either.

Are you seriously comparing the persecution of the Jews in Germany and greater Europe to asking people to get a bloody vaccination to slow down the spread of a global pandemic?

Seriously mate, I'm done reading your mock Orwellian claptrap

 

[AndyWolves]

Yes 38% chance of passing it on to unvaccinated and 25% chance to those vaccinated. Suggestion there that if you are vulnerable having the vaccine improves your chances of resisting the virus by 13% . Not sure the globe needs state mandated vaccines, control of what enters your body and the rejection of people from society (based on this evidence). Have they isolated this virus yet ?

You don't want vaccines, you don't want lockdowns, what do you want?

 

[darlowolf64]

To not be "oppressed by the shadowy cabal that is running the World that is wanting to inject us with god knows what!"

EDIT: Oh, and Prince Charles who is somehow leading the free world's fall into oppression by the elite

 

[Paul]

Seriously mate, I'm done reading your mock Orwellian claptrap

I do find him amusing I haven't heard this kind of thinking since the I was in 6th form (nearly 40 years ago) there was always at least one

 

[EpsomWolf]

Well Cambridge Wolf mentioned the ' big brother feel ' of vaccine passports on his recent trip. Maybe you should ask him.

The experience in France did set some alarm bells ringing. It’s effectively impossible to function normally in that society unvaccinated and I’m not comfortable with a two-tier society or vaccination by stealth. We are already seeing the unvaccinated being described as selfish (and much worse) and the inference they are somehow dirty and depriving ‘us’ of treatment by taking ‘our’ hospital beds is very dangerous and not helpful at all.

It does feel we are relatively sheltered which is creating an ambivalence, and yes, potentially allowing us to sleepwalk into something we should be concerned about. Even French-style enforcement would be too much for some currently unconcerned, never mind the various steps along the pathway to an eventual vaccine mandate. Everyone has their tipping point and mine is nowhere near being reached, but the France experience showed some worrying signs of where we might be heading and I’m not sure we should be so quick to dismiss others concerns because vaccines and vaccine passports appear to be the panacea and give us the security we so desperately crave.

Someone mentioned earlier about a visit to the NEC. In France there’s no way you’d be able to flash a screenshot and walk through the door. You’d be scanned in, recorded on a database and traceable. The same if you wanted to nip to a cafe or restaurant for a bite to eat, or do a bit of shopping, or maybe nip for a pint on your way back, or effectively any public indoor place, or anything that resembles normal life. That‘s fine in a one-dimensional ‘control for the benefit of public health‘ sense, but I suspect this stretches beyond that - to what level is of course hugely debatable - but I do understand the exasperation of those with serious concerns.

I guess we’ve all got to decide where our barometers are set and strategies that meet our own needs are always going to be more palatable to us than others, but there are some quite worrying times ahead irrespective of where we sit on the spectrum.

 

[darlowolf64]

The experience in France did set some alarm bells ringing. It’s effectively impossible to function normally in that society unvaccinated and I’m not comfortable with a two-tier society or vaccination by stealth. We are already seeing the unvaccinated being described as selfish (and much worse) and the inference they are somehow dirty and depriving ‘us’ of treatment by taking ‘our’ hospital beds is very dangerous and not helpful at all.

It does feel we are relatively sheltered which is creating an ambivalence, and yes, potentially allowing us to sleepwalk into something we should be concerned about. Even French-style enforcement would be too much for some currently unconcerned, never mind the various steps along the pathway to an eventual vaccine mandate. Everyone has their tipping point and mine is nowhere near being reached, but the France experience showed some worrying signs of where we might be heading and I’m not sure we should be so quick to dismiss others concerns because vaccines and vaccine passports appear to be the panacea and give us the security we so desperately crave.

Someone mentioned earlier about a visit to the NEC. In France there’s no way you’d be able to flash a screenshot and walk through the door. You’d be scanned in, recorded on a database and traceable. The same if you wanted to nip to a cafe or restaurant for a bite to eat, or do a bit of shopping, or maybe nip for a pint on your way back, or effectively any public indoor place, or anything that resembles normal life. That‘s fine in a one-dimensional ‘control for the benefit of public health‘ sense, but I suspect this stretches beyond that - to what level is of course hugely debatable - but I do understand the exasperation of those with serious concerns.

I guess we’ve all got to decide where our barometers are set and strategies that meet our own needs are always going to be more palatable to us than others, but there are some quite worrying times ahead irrespective of where we sit on the spectrum.

Did you miss having to do that very thing when you went out over the last year? Scanning into venues/pubs, leaving your contact details so you could be contacted in case of Covid? And what? That's a breach of civil liberties, protecting people and slowing the spread?
Maybe some things are just to protect people from, er, dying?

 

[Tredman]

To not be "oppressed by the shadowy cabal that is running the World that is wanting to inject us with god knows what!"

EDIT: Oh, and Prince Charles who is somehow leading the free world's fall into oppression by the elite

Quite ironic to be using an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory as the base for comparing the treatment revived to nazi Germany

 

[AndyWolves]

To me, it's really as simple as picking from the options

1. Vaccinate
2. Non pharmaceutical interventions
3. Deaths

I'll take vaccinations please

 

[EpsomWolf]

Did you miss having to do that very thing when you went out over the last year? Scanning into venues/pubs, leaving your contact details so you could be contacted in case of Covid? And what? That's a breach of civil liberties, protecting people and slowing the spread?
Maybe some things are just to protect people from, er, dying?

I’ve already acknowledged the benefits of that precisely to stop people dying and never disagreed. I’ve also explained the concerns about further levels of control and hinted at the ramifications of where that could take us and why it’s not unreasonable some are concerned.

If you’re 100% confident there are no ulterior motives then there is no reason to be worried about the direction of travel. I can understand why some people don’t feel the same.

FWIW, I’m more at your end of the sliding scale than some of the other views expressed on here, but as is often the way, I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[leedswolf]

The experience in France did set some alarm bells ringing. It’s effectively impossible to function normally in that society unvaccinated and I’m not comfortable with a two-tier society or vaccination by stealth. We are already seeing the unvaccinated being described as selfish (and much worse) and the inference they are somehow dirty and depriving ‘us’ of treatment by taking ‘our’ hospital beds is very dangerous and not helpful at all.

It does feel we are relatively sheltered which is creating an ambivalence, and yes, potentially allowing us to sleepwalk into something we should be concerned about. Even French-style enforcement would be too much for some currently unconcerned, never mind the various steps along the pathway to an eventual vaccine mandate. Everyone has their tipping point and mine is nowhere near being reached, but the France experience showed some worrying signs of where we might be heading and I’m not sure we should be so quick to dismiss others concerns because vaccines and vaccine passports appear to be the panacea and give us the security we so desperately crave.

Someone mentioned earlier about a visit to the NEC. In France there’s no way you’d be able to flash a screenshot and walk through the door. You’d be scanned in, recorded on a database and traceable. The same if you wanted to nip to a cafe or restaurant for a bite to eat, or do a bit of shopping, or maybe nip for a pint on your way back, or effectively any public indoor place, or anything that resembles normal life. That‘s fine in a one-dimensional ‘control for the benefit of public health‘ sense, but I suspect this stretches beyond that - to what level is of course hugely debatable - but I do understand the exasperation of those with serious concerns.

I guess we’ve all got to decide where our barometers are set and strategies that meet our own needs are always going to be more palatable to us than others, but there are some quite worrying times ahead irrespective of where we sit on the spectrum.

Liberté, égalité, fraternité?

 

[darlowolf64]

Perhaps it is somewhere in the middle but the extreme "it's a worldwide conspiracy with the covid strain deliberately released to control the masses" bullshit by some is just that... bullshit

 

[sycophantia]

One of the problems I have with the conspiracy theory's is.......why? What do govts have to gain by any of the actions taken? The cost of lockdowns, vaccinations and all the other stuff we've been through makes no sense unless it's for the overall good. All govts around the world only care about money and their economies, why trash them and build up huge debts just for some nominal control over the populace, which would be impossible to keep in place for any length of time.

 

[WolfMan]

The conspiracy angle is bullshit and counterproductive.

The real danger is we slide unwittingly into a very bad situation through complacency, incompetence and a series of unintended consequences.

If I had a crystal ball and could say with 100% certainty that vaccine passports would be where it ended, taking everything into account I would support them. But with anything that impinges on liberty (in this case vaccine passports and the technological infrastructure around them), you really have to imagine what the worst incarnation of a politician or leader imaginable would use those powers for. Once that level of state surveillance becomes the status quo, that's it, no going back.

This is probably why there's a hesitancy in places like East Germany, they remember what's it's like to live in a surveillance state. It's a huge gamble to assume all our future leaders will be benevolent souls only concerned with our welfare, history is practically screaming at us that this won't be the case. And as the famous quote says, "Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it".