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Euro 2020

I doubt the intention was to play 10-20 yards deeper, just got pushed back by a very good Italy team and we just wilted a bit. I personally would have made an earlier and different sub but Southgate saw it different....suppose we have to have a scapegoat
 
Horrible feeling waking up this morning, after time to reflect you only get a chance every 2 years to win something so coming 4th, and Runners up on the spin is very good and we’ve pretty much made ourselves part of a small group of sides that’ll genuinely compete.
 
I don’t think there was a conscious decision to sit deeper, more that Italy began to impose themselves after struggling in the early stages. Particularly they pushed onto our wingbacks very effectively which had the effect of preventing them getting forward as much as they had to defend. It ended up being Phillips and Rice who were trying to break forward but too often there was nowhere for them to go, Italy got possession and the cycle started again. We didn‘t choose to play deep, Italy forced it on us.

Southgate changed system rather than personnel which he might reflect on but that second half display from Italy was pretty intense. Rest of the game was pretty even, albeit two different styles, I thought we had got well into the game in extra time but I would have had Kane off, longer the game went on the worse he got.
 
Problem with how we approached the second half it was virtually impossible to snap out of once they equalised.
The video footage from inside Wembley just gets worse, there’s one where they’ve stormed a turnstile fans already in the ground legitimately try and help the stewards keep them out which obviously Leeds to fighting.
Looking at the ages of those causing most trouble it looks mainly like the 18-30 age group.
 
Tony Towner said:
His substitutions absolutely could have been better/actually happened, but his team selection was spot on, when one wing back crosses for the other to finish after 2 minutes then you have to say fair play.
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It worked but for some reason Italy were Just grossly unprepared for it. Was like Portugal against Germany where the forwards werent looking after the WBs so they had the freedom of the pitch.

Undortunately Mancini isn’t a total moron and made the relevant changes to ensure Chiesa and Insigne did the work the other way. So then after 15 mins we were done as an attacking force and just allowed Italy to control the game.
 
I’m sick of going on about it but I very much saw an attitude yesterday of “as long as I’m having a good time fuck everyone else around me” singing your songs at full pelt whilst drunken Leary might seem harmless but when it causes people to move carriages and causes children to hide in their parents lap it’s not a good thing.
When you watch football in a major city understand the fact you are brushing shoulders with those just trying to go about their daily business so respect that. ie don’t throw beer around and don’t accuse people of being miserable because they don’t feel in the mood to sing “it’s coming home”
 
Tony Towner said:
His substitutions absolutely could have been better/actually happened, but his team selection was spot on, when one wing back crosses for the other to finish after 2 minutes then you have to say fair play.

What killed us was the mentality in the second half, we went from a team that had swagger and confidence who looked like they could create (and concede) chances to one who sat 10 yards deeper and tried to hold shape. From the first minute of that half until it finally happened the equaliser was inevitable. That came from one man, his cautiousness threw our best chance in 55 years of winning a major tournament in the bin and that's before the penalty fiasco which wasn't a lottery, we got what we deserved
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Your only seeing England's performance and not taking into account they can't just do what they want, the opposition have a say in the "mentality" as well. Italy's midfield has better players than ours. To say it's as simple as we should have been more positive is just naive in my opinion. Like telling a man who's just had the shit kicked out of him, you should have been more positive, threw a few more punches and not taken so many, you've thrown the opportunity of winning that fight in the bin. Yeah easy for you to say mate! Who are you anyway, Bruce Lee?
 
Kenny said:
Biggest shock from last night is between 4 & 5 million people listened to Sam Matterface for over 2 hours
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Lots of masochists out there. I've not been a huge fan of the BBC coverage either, but no way would I put myself though that when there's an alternative available.
 
I think there's an element of aftertiming in criticising the subs.

We were the better team at HT - guarantee there was no clamour for a change then. Italy got on top but at that point you aren't going to take off a defender and change shape, just wouldn't happen. As soon as they scored, we did make that change as obviously we needed to score again. Then Rice was done (gassed and a knock) so we have to make a change in CM - it's Henderson or Bellingham, and in that situation he's always going to go for the former, shame he was terrible but as I said last night, not something you could predict.

So it boils down to whether you want to see Grealish on for Mount a bit earlier so he can fall over some more (the refs haven't bought his nonsense anywhere near as much as they do in the PL) or you want Rashford/Sancho on earlier if they're penalty takers...but who are you taking off, and you need to keep some semblance of a shape if they're on for any appreciable amount of time. They were absolutely the right choice, before last night Sancho had a record of scored 10/missed 1 (the only miss being in the U17 World Cup in 2017) and Rashford was scored 15/missed 2. They both just fluffed their lines, as Ronaldo has, as Messi has, as van Basten has, as Maradona has.

It's no good just shouting "make the subs".
 
The old Wembley where people now congregate before games used to be the old coach parks.
The new Wembley and it’s design has created an area where you can by beer from nearby supermarkets get smashed, no toilet facilities etc, creates a real problem on the steps up to the stadium.
A pretty damaging night also for the World Cup bid for 2030.
Football itself has a problem as it’s a very tribal sport more than any other.
Add to this the England factor whether you like it or not a large group attach themselves to England who have far right wing views, they see singing the German bomber, IRA songs as banter. Booing opponents national anthem as part of the intimidation process and booing taking of the knee a right of free speech. Have the attitude our little England will show the rest of the world because they’ll hate us.
Alcohol and drug culture prior to games also a huge problem have a few drinks enjoy yourself as long as it’s not at the expense of others. Humongous drug culture is creeping into pre match rituals to and I’m not just taking about smoking a joint so far more hardline stuff. Leeds to an array of unpredictable behaviour.
 
Trying to defend a 1 goal lead for 88 minutes, then trying to hold out for penalties against a giant goalkeeper with a good record in penalty shootouts.. Genius! Kane was exhausted, but wouldnt sub him because of penalties. Southgate takes the blame for selecting the penalty takers (I dont believe him), he shouldn't have to, the senior players should step up. Dreadful game management. Wouldve been a better game had we not scored early
 
As I've said, Sancho and Rashford have great records from the spot and take them regularly at club level.

Sterling didn't take one, I imagine as he has a terrible record (scored 2/missed 3, and we know it's actually missed 4 because he missed twice in a minute against us at Molineux but it was retaken), who else? Grealish has never taken a penalty in senior football. Nor has Phillips. Are we really saying the deciding factor was John Stones or Luke Shaw not stepping up, because they were the only other outfield players on the pitch. It's a bit desperate for me.
 
Tony Towner said:
Can you direct me to where I've said that please?
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Come on mate, if you want to argue over semantics, you can say something without using the precise words.

"his cautiousness threw our best chance in 55 years of winning a major tournament in the bin"

So what are you saying here, if it's not he should have been the opposite of cautious?
 
Can't think why we didn't throw the kitchen sink at one of the great counterattacking teams while we had the lead, personally.
 
WolfMan said:
Come on mate, if you want to argue over semantics, you can say something without using the precise words.

"his cautiousness threw our best chance in 55 years of winning a major tournament in the bin"

So what are you saying here, if it's not he should have been the opposite of cautious?
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No shades of grey in your world, everything is black and white?

The plan in the second half was to let Italy have the ball and hold shape, that naturally pins you back unless you have a captain/ centre half directing the team to hold a higher line. The lack of natural width other than the full backs and Sterling meant we didn't have an out ball. Defend higher up the pitch and try to have more possession rather than being passive isn't the same as all out attack, just carry on doing what we were mindset wise. Ultimately after the equaliser and the tactical adjustment it was more of a 50/50 game again.
 
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