Leicester 2-1 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[Lycan]

Some stunningly bad takes in this thread, as per. I can get being slightly frustrated that our weaknesses are still our weaknesses but if the result didn't matter as most were saying before kick off then yesterday was overall positive. The performance was there, the manager has got them playing the way he wants to, the system works, he makes sensible decisions, some of our players are just shit... That's where we are right now. We already knew all of this going into yesterday so I'm not sure what the need is for all the hand wringing.

Sá - He was brought in so we could play a high line but keeps giving away penalties like this. Vardy had already wasted one opportunity and was about to fuck up the second when he did that. Realistically we need to be upgrading the position in the summer but until that point we don't have any option but to play him.

Rest defence - Atrocious but we knew that already. Semedo, Toti/Bueno & a more dynamic central midfield have gone some way to improving it but our CB options aren't fit for purpose. Dawson & Kilman are good in other ways but if we want to play the kind of way that we did in the first half, which tactically was some of the best football I've seen from us since Nuno's 2nd season, then they need to be upgraded. We don't have anyone capable of defending the space behind our back line and I'd look to be signing 2x CB and probably another full back in the summer with a focus on athletic players who have a greater 'range', allowing us to push forward and not concede so many chances when our backs are turned.

Creativity - A well organised counterpress beats the best player maker in the world. I get that, it's how we scored our opener today. Even still, when we're in possession we need to be creating more. Cunha, Sarabia & Costa almost looked like clicking once or twice but one of those players won't be here next season and the rest of our forwards are far too inconsistent in this regard. Hwang in particular was dreadful when he came on, as soon as we conceded he was pretty much a wasted shirt, when Leicester sat back he was just never going to have enough quality to create a chance to score so we were limited to some hopeful Neto crosses and some Neves free kicks. We're playing the right way, we just need one or 2 more options in forward areas. Lopetegui likes to rotate his 'front 4' and in game likes to make all 5 substitutions and make them early (usually both wide players and at least one forward) so it's not good enough to only have 4 or 5 players at the required level on any given match day. There's too much of a drop off in quality at the moment and it's having a big impact in games when players like Podence, Adama, Moutinho, Hwang, Raúl & Neto come on and completely gut us of any attacking threat. There might be more to be coaxed out of one or 2 of those players mentioned but again, mainly a problem for the summer (I don't think these squad issues will be 'fixed' in 1 summer btw, this is going to take some time). Lopetegui is doing a fine job putting these players in the situations to succeed, they either need to deliver or leave.

Neves - He sits deep because he's told to. My god. Watch the game. He started off the second half playing alongside João Gomes but Leicester had introduced an extra midfielder at the break and were starting to create an overload centrally. Julen subbed on Moutinho for Costa and dropped Neves deeper, that allowed us to split our centre backs, push our full backs & 8s higher and control possession. It's not 'baffling', it's easy to understand these decisions if you just watch. It would've been fine as well if it wasn't for the personnel issues I've already alluded to. A lack of creativity up front means we're not taking advantage of our control and then all it takes is one fuck up defensively and you're leaving with 0 points. It doesn't mean we've played terribly or that Lopetegui is making ridiculous decisions, it means what we've been saying for years, that the squad building has been atrocious and has left us seriously lacking in some key areas.
There's no call for comments like 'why cor the manager see what we'm seeing'. You can see what we're doing well surely? You can see that it's 100 times better than what we were under Lage/Davis. If you don't understand some of Lopetegui's decisions or why sometimes they aren't working all the time then, quite frankly, you just need to educate yourself because you're spending far too much time watching a sport that you don't have a good enough grasp of.

 

[The Bear]

All great in theory, except we DIDN'T control possession once he made the tactical changes or even looked more solid defensively in central midfield. We lost all impetus going forwards, and it just invited them on as the midfield got deeper and deeper. We made Soumare look like a CL player in the 2nd half when him and Tielemans looked like competition winners in the 1st.

What's the point in making changes to try and keep possession if it completely blunts your attack? It was 1-1 at the time and they were coming back into the game more and more. The changes made certain they had the advantage over us as we looked completely non threatening afterwards other than free-kicks. Taking Costa off ensured we had zero presence up front to try and hold the ball up for others. I get we play midweek as well, but win the game you're playing in first and foremost and then make changes for the next game.

And both Brentford and Chelsea started with 3 in the middle against our 2 yet we still managed to play well against them and be the better team.

 

[Lycan]

All great in theory, except we DIDN'T control possession once he made the tactical changes or even looked more solid defensively in central midfield. We lost all impetus going forwards, and it just invited them on as the midfield got deeper and deeper. We made Soumare look like a CL player in the 2nd half when him and Tielemans looked like competition winners in the 1st.

What's the point in making changes to try and keep possession if it completely blunts your attack? It was 1-1 at the time and they were coming back into the game more and more. The changes made certain they had the advantage over us as we looked completely non threatening afterwards other than free-kicks. Taking Costa off ensured we had zero presence up front to try and hold the ball up for others. I get we play midweek as well, but win the game you're playing in first and foremost and then make changes for the next game.

And both Brentford and Chelsea started with 3 in the middle against our 2 yet we still managed to play well against them and be the better team.

We were in control for large periods after the first tactical change.

Like I said, Lopetegui likes to make changes to his wide & forward players and he likes to change them early. The game has changed drastically since the 9 substitutes, 5 changes rule came in during lockdown and Julen takes advantage of it better than a lot of other coaches I could name. It's a squad game and we need to either upgrade the players like Hwang, Moutinho, Podence, Neto, Adama etc or get more from them. There's no such thing as a 'best XI' any more so you need to drop notions like that entirely or you're going to spend the majority of Lopetegui's time at Wolves windmilling about team sheets or substitutions.

Shouldn't need to be pointed out but 3 man midfields can have many different iterations. For the first 10 minutes of the second half Leicester were exploiting space in front of the full back and wide of the 2 midfielders. It's a known flaw in a 4-4-2, it was a good change by Davis to exploit it and Lopetegui was right to make the changes he did. He was let down by the performances of the players he brought on, or rather he's been let down by the recruitment team who haven't built a squad with enough players with the right characteristics for the way he wants to play.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Firstly I do agree with a lot of the post.

Some stunningly bad takes in this thread, as per. I can get being slightly frustrated that our weaknesses are still our weaknesses but if the result didn't matter as most were saying before kick off then yesterday was overall positive. The performance was there, the manager has got them playing the way he wants to, the system works, he makes sensible decisions, some of our players are just shit... That's where we are right now. We already knew all of this going into yesterday so I'm not sure what the need is for all the hand wringing.

Yes we have shit players, but so do a lot of other clubs.

Sá - He was brought in so we could play a high line but keeps giving away penalties like this. Vardy had already wasted one opportunity and was about to fuck up the second when he did that. Realistically we need to be upgrading the position in the summer but until that point we don't have any option but to play him.

Agreed

Rest defence - Atrocious but we knew that already. Semedo, Toti/Bueno & a more dynamic central midfield have gone some way to improving it but our CB options aren't fit for purpose. Dawson & Kilman are good in other ways but if we want to play the kind of way that we did in the first half, which tactically was some of the best football I've seen from us since Nuno's 2nd season, then they need to be upgraded. We don't have anyone capable of defending the space behind our back line and I'd look to be signing 2x CB and probably another full back in the summer with a focus on athletic players who have a greater 'range', allowing us to push forward and not concede so many chances when our backs are turned.

Agreed

Creativity - A well organised counterpress beats the best player maker in the world. I get that, it's how we scored our opener today. Even still, when we're in possession we need to be creating more. Cunha, Sarabia & Costa almost looked like clicking once or twice but one of those players won't be here next season and the rest of our forwards are far too inconsistent in this regard.

We were very close to creating some good opportunities but over hit passes, poor decisions, poor runs and poor shots meant we didn’t actually make the keeper work despite the dominance.

Hwang in particular was dreadful when he came on, as soon as we conceded he was pretty much a wasted shirt,

Absolutely. But playing Hwang in that role was always going to yield that? Podence was more “like for like” with Sarabia who could pick up those spaces. The removal of Costa killed Cunha as well. So yes I still thinks it’s on the manager when he could have had Raul on the bench at the least to not kill Cunha as well even if he wanted Hwangs industry on the left. Alternatively you change it and go for pace out widelike we did against Liverpool in the cup at Anfield, sit a little deeper and use Neves to start attacks down there exploiting the space which he is best at.

when Leicester sat back he was just never going to have enough quality to create a chance to score so we were limited to some hopeful Neto crosses and some Neves free kicks. We're playing the right way, we just need one or 2 more options in forward areas. Lopetegui likes to rotate his 'front 4' and in game likes to make all 5 substitutions and make them early (usually both wide players and at least one forward) so it's not good enough to only have 4 or 5 players at the required level on any given match day. There's too much of a drop off in quality at the moment and it's having a big impact in games when players like Podence, Adama, Moutinho, Hwang, Raúl & Neto come on and completely gut us of any attacking threat. There might be more to be coaxed out of one or 2 of those players mentioned but again, mainly a problem for the summer (I don't think these squad issues will be 'fixed' in 1 summer btw, this is going to take some time). Lopetegui is doing a fine job putting these players in the situations to succeed, they either need to deliver or leave.

Neves - He sits deep because he's told to. My god. Watch the game. He started off the second half playing alongside João Gomes but Leicester had introduced an extra midfielder at the break and were starting to create an overload centrally.

He did but I also felt he was too quick to bounce the ball back into defence when in acres of space and a turn would have had us on a promising attack.

Julen subbed on Moutinho for Costa and dropped Neves deeper, that allowed us to split our centre backs, push our full backs & 8s higher and control possession. It's not 'baffling', it's easy to understand these decisions if you just watch.

It is baffling for me. Because it pushes FBs who aren’t useful in the attacking third into more crucial positions. It also made João Gomes less effective and pushed Nunes wide. And João just can’t do that role either. I don’t think this is anything that we hadn’t seen fail before. So I do find it baffling to do it again when it’s proven ineffective and the opposite of what has yielded success

It would've been fine as well if it wasn't for the personnel issues I've already alluded to. A lack of creativity up front means we're not taking advantage of our control and then all it takes is one fuck up defensively and you're leaving with 0 points.

Yes but he bought on the least creative player in Hwang in a crucial part of our success. Killed the other creative player and no focal point and Also killed Nunes too.

It doesn't mean we've played terribly or that Lopetegui is making ridiculous decisions, it means what we've been saying for years, that the squad building has been atrocious and has left us seriously lacking in some key areas.

Agreed. Thought we were going to win 3-0 after 30 mins. Was an incredible performance that lacked quality as discussed above. But for the reasons stated above I don’t think the changes were the right call. You don’t have to agree with that but I’ve not just said it without some form of reasoning.

 

[Deano]

Yeah the idea is obviously good but you don't just push on with it regardless if you don't have the players that can carry out key parts of the plan. I'd say there's been enough evidence of some of the players failings at those things since Lopetegui came in, for him not to keep putting them in positions where he's asking them to do things they can't do.

 

[Lycan]

Firstly I do agree with a lot of the post.

Yes we have shit players, but so do a lot of other clubs.

Agreed

Agreed

We were very close to creating some good opportunities but over hit passes, poor decisions, poor runs and poor shots meant we didn’t actually make the keeper work despite the dominance.

Absolutely. But playing Hwang in that role was always going to yield that? Podence was more “like for like” with Sarabia who could pick up those spaces. The removal of Costa killed Cunha as well. So yes I still thinks it’s on the manager when he could have had Raul on the bench at the least to not kill Cunha as well even if he wanted Hwangs industry on the left. Alternatively you change it and go for pace out widelike we did against Liverpool in the cup at Anfield, sit a little deeper and use Neves to start attacks down there exploiting the space which he is best at.


He did but I also felt he was too quick to bounce the ball back into defence when in acres of space and a turn would have had us on a promising attack.

It is baffling for me. Because it pushes FBs who aren’t useful in the attacking third into more crucial positions. It also made João Gomes less effective and pushed Nunes wide. And João just can’t do that role either. I don’t think this is anything that we hadn’t seen fail before. So I do find it baffling to do it again when it’s proven ineffective and the opposite of what has yielded success

Yes but he bought on the least creative player in Hwang in a crucial part of our success. Killed the other creative player and no focal point and Also killed Nunes too.

Agreed. Thought we were going to win 3-0 after 30 mins. Was an incredible performance that lacked quality as discussed above. But for the reasons stated above I don’t think the changes were the right call. You don’t have to agree with that but I’ve not just said it without some form of reasoning.

He's going to make 5 changes in the vast majority of matches and he's going to make them early, that's clearly something that he's always going to do and it should be obvious why that's a good idea. It's been a large part of why we've become a far better team since he took over. He shows trust in his squad and gets more out of them over the course of a season. There's always going to be a slight drop off from your better players to those who start less regularly but at the moment that drop off is far too drastic. I don't think it's drastic enough to say 'don't play them then' though, because these players can and have put in good performances for him. It's wrong to say that they 'can't' play in the way they're being asked to, they just didn't yesterday, their 'quality' is far too inconsistent. Results like that are going to keep happening until we improve our squad depth but over the course of the season, playing the way we play and utilising our squad in the way we have done is going to stand us in good stead. Wailing about changes negatively affecting individual games is just reactionary, overly negative, short term nonsense.

On Raúl, he clearly doesn't like him. Same with RAN. That's his call and I can understand it, he clearly wants a certain type of player & personality around the squad and if they don't fit into what he expects then that's all there is to say really.

 

[Tony Towner]

Yeah the idea is obviously good but you don't just push on with it regardless if you don't have the players that can carry out key parts of the plan. I'd say there's been enough evidence of some of the players failings at those things since Lopetegui came in, for him not to keep putting them in positions where he's asking them to do things they can't do.

Against Southampton, Newcastle, Forest and Liverpool away it wasn't substitutions, it was how we set it to begin with. Yesterday was in game changes, so you can choose to ignore circumstance, but previously we've done it by choice

 

[Carsy]

Some stunningly bad takes in this thread, as per. I can get being slightly frustrated that our weaknesses are still our weaknesses but if the result didn't matter as most were saying before kick off then yesterday was overall positive. The performance was there, the manager has got them playing the way he wants to, the system works, he makes sensible decisions, some of our players are just shit... That's where we are right now. We already knew all of this going into yesterday so I'm not sure what the need is for all the hand wringing.

Sá - He was brought in so we could play a high line but keeps giving away penalties like this. Vardy had already wasted one opportunity and was about to fuck up the second when he did that. Realistically we need to be upgrading the position in the summer but until that point we don't have any option but to play him.

Rest defence - Atrocious but we knew that already. Semedo, Toti/Bueno & a more dynamic central midfield have gone some way to improving it but our CB options aren't fit for purpose. Dawson & Kilman are good in other ways but if we want to play the kind of way that we did in the first half, which tactically was some of the best football I've seen from us since Nuno's 2nd season, then they need to be upgraded. We don't have anyone capable of defending the space behind our back line and I'd look to be signing 2x CB and probably another full back in the summer with a focus on athletic players who have a greater 'range', allowing us to push forward and not concede so many chances when our backs are turned.

Creativity - A well organised counterpress beats the best player maker in the world. I get that, it's how we scored our opener today. Even still, when we're in possession we need to be creating more. Cunha, Sarabia & Costa almost looked like clicking once or twice but one of those players won't be here next season and the rest of our forwards are far too inconsistent in this regard. Hwang in particular was dreadful when he came on, as soon as we conceded he was pretty much a wasted shirt, when Leicester sat back he was just never going to have enough quality to create a chance to score so we were limited to some hopeful Neto crosses and some Neves free kicks. We're playing the right way, we just need one or 2 more options in forward areas. Lopetegui likes to rotate his 'front 4' and in game likes to make all 5 substitutions and make them early (usually both wide players and at least one forward) so it's not good enough to only have 4 or 5 players at the required level on any given match day. There's too much of a drop off in quality at the moment and it's having a big impact in games when players like Podence, Adama, Moutinho, Hwang, Raúl & Neto come on and completely gut us of any attacking threat. There might be more to be coaxed out of one or 2 of those players mentioned but again, mainly a problem for the summer (I don't think these squad issues will be 'fixed' in 1 summer btw, this is going to take some time). Lopetegui is doing a fine job putting these players in the situations to succeed, they either need to deliver or leave.

Neves - He sits deep because he's told to. My god. Watch the game. He started off the second half playing alongside João Gomes but Leicester had introduced an extra midfielder at the break and were starting to create an overload centrally. Julen subbed on Moutinho for Costa and dropped Neves deeper, that allowed us to split our centre backs, push our full backs & 8s higher and control possession. It's not 'baffling', it's easy to understand these decisions if you just watch. It would've been fine as well if it wasn't for the personnel issues I've already alluded to. A lack of creativity up front means we're not taking advantage of our control and then all it takes is one fuck up defensively and you're leaving with 0 points. It doesn't mean we've played terribly or that Lopetegui is making ridiculous decisions, it means what we've been saying for years, that the squad building has been atrocious and has left us seriously lacking in some key areas.
There's no call for comments like 'why cor the manager see what we'm seeing'. You can see what we're doing well surely? You can see that it's 100 times better than what we were under Lage/Davis. If you don't understand some of Lopetegui's decisions or why sometimes they aren't working all the time then, quite frankly, you just need to educate yourself because you're spending far too much time watching a sport that you don't have a good enough grasp of.

The performance was there for 35 minutes, we were poor after the penalty.

You’ve said things were largely positive, then proceeded to be negative regarding the defence and our keeper .

A stunningly bad take, as per

 

[prawnking]

No point in having a very good performance for half an hour of a game then when things go against you start sliding inexorably to a defeat against a patched-up Dean Smith relegation team.

Not all bad, but more bad than good in the end, more questions than answers and zero points

 

[Lycan]

The performance was there for 35 minutes, we were poor after the penalty.

You’ve said things were largely positive, then proceeded to be negative regarding the defence and our keeper .

A stunningly bad take, as per

If you really think there was only 35 minutes worth of performance there to be positive about then you're hopeless.

I can be positive about the performance and the way the manager is asking the players to set up and still have reservations about certain personnel. I was over the moon after the Liverpool game, couldn't have heaped more praise on every player that played that day. Didn't change that some of those same players need to be replaced if we want to be fighting at the top of this league.

 

[Carsy]

If you really think there was only 35 minutes worth of performance there to be positive about then you're hopeless.

I can be positive about the performance and the way the manager is asking the players to set up and still have reservations about certain personnel. I was over the moon after the Liverpool game, couldn't have heaped more praise on every player that played that day. Didn't change that some of those same players need to be replaced if we want to be fighting at the top of this league.

Someone’s abit touchy odd.

If you want to be pedantic then All of the first 35 minutes weren’t positive as there would’ve been some errors thrown in.

Ofcourse there are more positives then just the first 35 minutes,

There are positives to take, as well as negatives. You are allowed to be critical y’know, or disagree with people without a holier than thou complex. People like that are hopeless I’d say …

 

[Johnny75]

Some stunningly bad takes in this thread, as per. I can get being slightly frustrated that our weaknesses are still our weaknesses but if the result didn't matter as most were saying before kick off then yesterday was overall positive. The performance was there, the manager has got them playing the way he wants to, the system works, he makes sensible decisions, some of our players are just shit... That's where we are right now. We already knew all of this going into yesterday so I'm not sure what the need is for all the hand wringing.

Sá - He was brought in so we could play a high line but keeps giving away penalties like this. Vardy had already wasted one opportunity and was about to fuck up the second when he did that. Realistically we need to be upgrading the position in the summer but until that point we don't have any option but to play him.

Rest defence - Atrocious but we knew that already. Semedo, Toti/Bueno & a more dynamic central midfield have gone some way to improving it but our CB options aren't fit for purpose. Dawson & Kilman are good in other ways but if we want to play the kind of way that we did in the first half, which tactically was some of the best football I've seen from us since Nuno's 2nd season, then they need to be upgraded. We don't have anyone capable of defending the space behind our back line and I'd look to be signing 2x CB and probably another full back in the summer with a focus on athletic players who have a greater 'range', allowing us to push forward and not concede so many chances when our backs are turned.

Creativity - A well organised counterpress beats the best player maker in the world. I get that, it's how we scored our opener today. Even still, when we're in possession we need to be creating more. Cunha, Sarabia & Costa almost looked like clicking once or twice but one of those players won't be here next season and the rest of our forwards are far too inconsistent in this regard. Hwang in particular was dreadful when he came on, as soon as we conceded he was pretty much a wasted shirt, when Leicester sat back he was just never going to have enough quality to create a chance to score so we were limited to some hopeful Neto crosses and some Neves free kicks. We're playing the right way, we just need one or 2 more options in forward areas. Lopetegui likes to rotate his 'front 4' and in game likes to make all 5 substitutions and make them early (usually both wide players and at least one forward) so it's not good enough to only have 4 or 5 players at the required level on any given match day. There's too much of a drop off in quality at the moment and it's having a big impact in games when players like Podence, Adama, Moutinho, Hwang, Raúl & Neto come on and completely gut us of any attacking threat. There might be more to be coaxed out of one or 2 of those players mentioned but again, mainly a problem for the summer (I don't think these squad issues will be 'fixed' in 1 summer btw, this is going to take some time). Lopetegui is doing a fine job putting these players in the situations to succeed, they either need to deliver or leave.

Neves - He sits deep because he's told to. My god. Watch the game. He started off the second half playing alongside João Gomes but Leicester had introduced an extra midfielder at the break and were starting to create an overload centrally. Julen subbed on Moutinho for Costa and dropped Neves deeper, that allowed us to split our centre backs, push our full backs & 8s higher and control possession. It's not 'baffling', it's easy to understand these decisions if you just watch. It would've been fine as well if it wasn't for the personnel issues I've already alluded to. A lack of creativity up front means we're not taking advantage of our control and then all it takes is one fuck up defensively and you're leaving with 0 points. It doesn't mean we've played terribly or that Lopetegui is making ridiculous decisions, it means what we've been saying for years, that the squad building has been atrocious and has left us seriously lacking in some key areas.
There's no call for comments like 'why cor the manager see what we'm seeing'. You can see what we're doing well surely? You can see that it's 100 times better than what we were under Lage/Davis. If you don't understand some of Lopetegui's decisions or why sometimes they aren't working all the time then, quite frankly, you just need to educate yourself because you're spending far too much time watching a sport that you don't have a good enough grasp of.

Lop got it wrong yesterday, no good defending that.

Neves dropping deep was a mistake as asking Toti to control possession is just rank management. If he wanted to do that he should've put Bueno on.

Nunes can't operate in that system either so not taking him off earlier was also a mistake.

Subbing Costa off and putting Cunha up top is another mistake as he can't operate as a central forward.

Moutinho looked utterly lost in the 10 position as he has done most of the time he's played it.

It's bad management, no defending that and bizarre you have.

Lots of people can see what he wants to do and we certainly don't have the players as a squad to do that so asking them to do it isn't good.

But I have no concerns with Lop as he makes more good decisions than bad but sycophancy isn't good and certainly telling people their opinion is a bad take is poor form, you're better than that.

 

[Lycan]

Someone’s abit touchy odd.

If you want to be pedantic then All of the first 35 minutes weren’t positive as there would’ve been some errors thrown in.

Ofcourse there are more positives then just the first 35 minutes,

There are positives to take, as well as negatives. You are allowed to be critical y’know, or disagree with people without a holier than thou complex. People like that are hopeless I’d say …

You've completely missed all the points I made and made none of your own so I'm going to leave this one here.

 

[Carsy]

You've completely missed all the points I made and made none of your own so I'm going to leave this one here.

Well I haven’t. But you do you and go about your Sunday my friend

 

[Jinky]

Some stunningly bad takes in this thread, as per. I can get being slightly frustrated that our weaknesses are still our weaknesses but if the result didn't matter as most were saying before kick off then yesterday was overall positive. The performance was there, the manager has got them playing the way he wants to, the system works, he makes sensible decisions, some of our players are just shit... That's where we are right now. We already knew all of this going into yesterday so I'm not sure what the need is for all the hand wringing.

Sá - He was brought in so we could play a high line but keeps giving away penalties like this. Vardy had already wasted one opportunity and was about to fuck up the second when he did that. Realistically we need to be upgrading the position in the summer but until that point we don't have any option but to play him.

Rest defence - Atrocious but we knew that already. Semedo, Toti/Bueno & a more dynamic central midfield have gone some way to improving it but our CB options aren't fit for purpose. Dawson & Kilman are good in other ways but if we want to play the kind of way that we did in the first half, which tactically was some of the best football I've seen from us since Nuno's 2nd season, then they need to be upgraded. We don't have anyone capable of defending the space behind our back line and I'd look to be signing 2x CB and probably another full back in the summer with a focus on athletic players who have a greater 'range', allowing us to push forward and not concede so many chances when our backs are turned.

Creativity - A well organised counterpress beats the best player maker in the world. I get that, it's how we scored our opener today. Even still, when we're in possession we need to be creating more. Cunha, Sarabia & Costa almost looked like clicking once or twice but one of those players won't be here next season and the rest of our forwards are far too inconsistent in this regard. Hwang in particular was dreadful when he came on, as soon as we conceded he was pretty much a wasted shirt, when Leicester sat back he was just never going to have enough quality to create a chance to score so we were limited to some hopeful Neto crosses and some Neves free kicks. We're playing the right way, we just need one or 2 more options in forward areas. Lopetegui likes to rotate his 'front 4' and in game likes to make all 5 substitutions and make them early (usually both wide players and at least one forward) so it's not good enough to only have 4 or 5 players at the required level on any given match day. There's too much of a drop off in quality at the moment and it's having a big impact in games when players like Podence, Adama, Moutinho, Hwang, Raúl & Neto come on and completely gut us of any attacking threat. There might be more to be coaxed out of one or 2 of those players mentioned but again, mainly a problem for the summer (I don't think these squad issues will be 'fixed' in 1 summer btw, this is going to take some time). Lopetegui is doing a fine job putting these players in the situations to succeed, they either need to deliver or leave.

Neves - He sits deep because he's told to. My god. Watch the game. He started off the second half playing alongside João Gomes but Leicester had introduced an extra midfielder at the break and were starting to create an overload centrally. Julen subbed on Moutinho for Costa and dropped Neves deeper, that allowed us to split our centre backs, push our full backs & 8s higher and control possession. It's not 'baffling', it's easy to understand these decisions if you just watch. It would've been fine as well if it wasn't for the personnel issues I've already alluded to. A lack of creativity up front means we're not taking advantage of our control and then all it takes is one fuck up defensively and you're leaving with 0 points. It doesn't mean we've played terribly or that Lopetegui is making ridiculous decisions, it means what we've been saying for years, that the squad building has been atrocious and has left us seriously lacking in some key areas.
There's no call for comments like 'why cor the manager see what we'm seeing'. You can see what we're doing well surely? You can see that it's 100 times better than what we were under Lage/Davis. If you don't understand some of Lopetegui's decisions or why sometimes they aren't working all the time then, quite frankly, you just need to educate yourself because you're spending far too much time watching a sport that you don't have a good enough grasp of.

Jesus Christ, I’ve read some condescending shite on this forum over the years, but this is another level.

 

[Tony Towner]

Jesus Christ, I’ve read some condescending shite on this forum over the years, but this is another level.

I'll look to step up my game

 

[PuntsWolf]

But I have no concerns with Lop as he makes more good decisions than bad

Agreed. For the record, I think he is going to be really good for us. But that doesn’t make him exempt from criticism

 

[Lycan]

Lop got it wrong yesterday, no good defending that.

Neves dropping deep was a mistake as asking Toti to control possession is just rank management. If he wanted to do that he should've put Bueno on.

Nunes can't operate in that system either so not driving him off earlier was also a mistake.

Subbing Costa off and putting Cunha up top of another mistake as he can't operate as a central forward.

Moutinho looked utterly lost in the 10 position as he has done most of the time he's played it.

It's bad management, no defending that and bizarre you have.

Lots of people can see what he wants to do and we certainly don't have the players as a squad to do that so asking them to do it isn't good.

But I have no concerns with Lop as he makes more good decisions than bad but sycophancy isn't good and certainly telling people their opinion is a bad take is poor form, you're better than that.

I don't think he got it badly wrong tbh, you can see the reasoning behind every change he made, even if not every one of them worked.

I agree that I would've had Bueno on but I was actually quite impressed with Toti going forward, I think he drives with the ball well and he's got the pace & physicality to go past people. He allowed Sarabia to drift inside in the first half as well which I'm not sure he would've been able to do to that effect if Bueno was there.

On Moutinho, he clearly doesn't want him to play in a 2 as he's not dynamic enough, which is fine so he's decided that the only way he can use him is in a 3 or in that role pressing alongside the striker. He's came on and performed well in that position before, he works hard and presses alongside the front player intelligently, even if he's not the greatest goal threat he can definitely help the team from that position. It's obviosly not a perfect fit for the player or the team but I think it's a good use of what he has on his hands atm. It just goes back to squad depth for me, next season Moutinho isn't going to be here and it'll be someone else he asks to play that position, hopefully someone better suited to it. It didn't work yesterday (and hasn't worked more than it has) but I've no issue with the actual decision.

It's not sycophancy, I just genuinely like the way he operates. I'm a big fan of the way he uses his squad and I like the tactical flexibility, I just think he's a bit restricted by his options at the moment. I don't think he should stop asking us to play the way he has or stop rotating his forward line the way he has because it's clearly had an overall positive effect on the club. Results like yesterdays are going to happen before he gets the chance to improve squad depth but I think he should stick to his values. The talk on here before the game was that we're pretty much safe and while it would've been great to win it wasn't exactly do or die but then one loss in a game where we were largely dominant and pretty unlucky not to at least take a point and this forum descends into the same old negativity.

 

[Johnny75]

I don't think he got it badly wrong tbh, you can see the reasoning behind every change he made, even if not every one of them worked.

I agree that I would've had Bueno on but I was actually quite impressed with Toti going forward, I think he drives with the ball well and he's got the pace & physicality to go past people. He allowed Sarabia to drift inside in the first half as well which I'm not sure he would've been able to do to that effect if Bueno was there.

On Moutinho, he clearly doesn't want him to play in a 2 as he's not dynamic enough, which is fine so he's decided that the only way he can use him is in a 3 or in that role pressing alongside the striker. He's came on and performed well in that position before, he works hard and presses alongside the front player intelligently, even if he's not the greatest goal threat he can definitely help the team from that position. It's obviosly not a perfect fit for the player or the team but I think it's a good use of what he has on his hands atm. It just goes back to squad depth for me, next season Moutinho isn't going to be here and it'll be someone else he asks to play that position, hopefully someone better suited to it. It didn't work yesterday (and hasn't worked more than it has) but I've no issue with the actual decision.

It's not sycophancy, I just genuinely like the way he operates. I'm a big fan of the way he uses his squad and I like the tactical flexibility, I just think he's a bit restricted by his options at the moment. I don't think he should stop asking us to play the way he has or stop rotating his forward line the way he has because it's clearly had an overall positive effect on the club. Results like yesterdays are going to happen before he gets the chance to improve squad depth but I think he should stick to his values. The talk on here before the game was that we're pretty much safe and while it would've been great to win it wasn't exactly do or die but then one loss in a game where we were largely dominant and pretty unlucky not to at least take a point and this forum descends into the same old negativity.

I don't think anybody is disagreeing with his reasoning, but we'll have to disagree in that I thought he got it wrong.

The Moutinho at 10 is odd as I don't think it's ever worked (Spurs was his best performance and not in that role) but it is hard to think who could play that role if both Cunha and Sarabia are off the pitch/ in different positions.

I'm hopeful Cundle can fulfill that role next season (but I might be on my own there, although another assists for him yesterday in the 10 role).

I'm certainly in the camp of being happy we've got a decent manager but up until a few weeks ago I did wonder what he was doing with his team choices. He seems to have settled now and is seeing what does and doesn't work and brave to try it.

Agree next season is the time to judge when we have his squad and players in the positions he wants.

If you want real negativity read the match day thread. My word, it's horrific.

 

[slink]

Firstly i think we all know some of our players aren’t good enough especially for how Lopetegui wants to play but as the manager then you’ve got to play a way that encompasses what you want to do and what the players can do. The first 35 minutes did that, the second half didn’t and yes Leicester made changes but we could have made better subs imo and not had players in roles that caused us so many issues.

The first 35 was the best we’ve looked imo because we got it in to good areas and the interplay was very good but let down by execution a lot of the time apart from the goal. Too many overhit passes etc….

The press is important for us right now as we haven’t got the ability on the ball to open teams up really so the set up works until subs can’t do what other players did and that exposes other players weaknesses.

Neves on and dropping so deep exposed how bad the back 4 are on the ball but it also gave Leicester more space in midfield especially as Dewsbury-Hall had come on. Him dropping so deep meant Dawson and Kilman split and it pushed Toti and Semedo higher up but none of them are good enough on the ball for all Toti and Kilman did try to carry it. It also completely took Matheus N out the game and Sarabia was dropping deeper but i think he’s still struggling with the tempo of some games when he’s on the ball.

It then got worse when Hwang and Moutinho came on and Cunha went up top. Cunha was then really isolated and his movement is not that of a 9, Hwang looked really poor and Moutinho had zero impact and wandered around like a player who doesn’t know how to play in the 10. It completely nullified what had looked our best route to goal while having possession which was Costa and Cunha’s movement and linkups.

The last 2 subs had limited impact too but Neto was at least positive and could have created something possibly at 1-1 when Leicester didn’t have 3 points to hang on to. I mean fans can back up Lopetegui all they want but i think everyone can see that Cunha has to play as the 10 with a striker infront and i think it suits the whole team. If you want Neves to drop as deep as he did then you need better ball players or pace on so Bueno for Toti, Matheus probably in front of him to pick up the ball and drive and Neto/Adama on to provide width and pace. There were no diagonals on apart from to Toti and we just couldn’t pull Leicester out of shape with a paceless team really and they were happy to deal with that.

Back to 4411 on Tuesday and Raul on the bench as the rotation for Costa so we’ve still got that focal point even if he’s not anywhere near the player he was. Don’t mind Neves coming back in to the 11 but he has to be more Lemina role than deepest player and if not then move Matheus inside with Gomes.

Just on Neves, i think we all know how good he can be but i do wonder if part of the reason he is still here is that his default is to drop as he did yesterday and that’s put the big boys off and they’ve gone with other options. He’s never kicked up a fuss either because he and family seem so settled. Will be interesting to see how it all unfolds from here to the start of next season.