The Fitness Thread

[Tredman]

100 miles a week of slow running! How do you find time to live.

 

[Yankeewolf]

That would have taken about 14 to 15 hours a week back then. I used to get up at 4am, run 10 miles, then shower and breakfast and be in my teaching job in Brooklyn by 7:30. I made the sacrifices to improve. I still run at 6am now.

 

[Aikiwolf]

Interestingly there is growing evidence that the link between knee injuries and running is much more nuanced than previously thought.

Cartilage seems to grow to support running and there is a reduction in osteoarthritis (in knees) for runners - however poor form, bad/old shoes, over training are all more likely to lead to issues.

Here's a link to an article:

Is Running Bad for Your Knees?

Lots of people want to know whether running is bad for their knees. We've got the answer, as well as how to take care of your knees when you run.

www.healthline.com

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

I'm not having the generic summary that running is bad for your knees, as humans we have literally evolved to be good long distance runners, and we are/were bloody good at it, that's how we used to eat, our prey was quicker than us, but they didn't have the endurance we had so eventually we'd get them in the end.

Of course there will be people that struggle with their knees, but that could be down to any number of reasons, their weight, trying to do too much too soon, their form, bad shoes, but if you build yourself up gradually, recover when you should, stretch, stretch and stretch, even on the days you don't run, and make sure you don't run on shot shoes you will generally be fine.

Here’s Exactly How Running Can Affect Your Knees

You’ll know you’re a runner when you get your first lecture on how you’re destroying your knees.

www.runnersworld.com

Edit: i see that article AW posted touches on a bit of that.

 

[Yankeewolf]

The knee issue is interesting. I had surgery on one for a torn miniscus. It appears,however,that specific weight training to strengthen the quads and hamstrings can pre-empt the need for surgery. I know runners that went that route. I do weight work for the legs now.

 

[Johnny75]

Interestingly there is growing evidence that the link between knee injuries and running is much more nuanced than previously thought.

Cartilage seems to grow to support running and there is a reduction in osteoarthritis (in knees) for runners - however poor form, bad/old shoes, over training are all more likely to lead to issues.

Here's a link to an article:

Is Running Bad for Your Knees?

Lots of people want to know whether running is bad for their knees. We've got the answer, as well as how to take care of your knees when you run.

www.healthline.com

It's an interesting article.

Just to dispel cartilage supporting the knee. It doesn't, it only deteriorates, cartilage can't grow back.

At the risk of patronising, cartilage is a shock absorber in the knee, a foam/ gel like in structure in that mechanically it compresses and distributes forces when under pressure and because it has an elasticity it can mould and return to shape around other living tissue.

If you have bad knees and ever had a torn cartilage then running on hard surfaces may not be for you as you have roughed up the edge of the cartilage which means increases wear through friction and destabilise the knee leading to floating pieces in the joint which can become foreign bodies.

Running on hard surfaces causes vibration in the joint and cross directional forces due to the Q angle (the knee is not a straight hinge) mean running at any speed loads a huge amount of pressure onto cartilage.

This will increase damage. Good shoes will mitigate some damage and technique is king, neither will help your knees much if they're worn out.

Tl:dr running IS bad for your knees, the science supports it and always has done.

 

[Johnny75]

I'm not having the generic summary that running is bad for your knees, as humans we have literally evolved to be good long distance runners, and we are/were bloody good at it, that's how we used to eat, our prey was quicker than us, but they didn't have the endurance we had so eventually we'd get them in the end.

Of course there will be people that struggle with their knees, but that could be down to any number of reasons, their weight, trying to do too much too soon, their form, bad shoes, but if you build yourself up gradually, recover when you should, stretch, stretch and stretch, even on the days you don't run, and make sure you don't run on shot shoes you will generally be fine.

Here’s Exactly How Running Can Affect Your Knees

You’ll know you’re a runner when you get your first lecture on how you’re destroying your knees.

www.runnersworld.com

Edit: i see that article AW posted touches on a bit of that.

You're wrong.

I knew my degree would be of use one day

 

[The Bear]

Knee joints aren't particularly well designed in an evolutionary sense. They're just good enough when you're part of a tribe, which is all we need. As long as all the people don't go down with knee injuries we can still hunt animals down and then eat as a group.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

And when did you take your degree?

I think that used to be the conception, but over the last 10 years or so, that's definitely not seen as the case.

You only have to type "is running bad for my knees" into google to see the oodles of papers, articles and studies that come to the conclusion that it isn't bad for knees, in fact it actually helps prevent arthritis, but as i said, if your form is shit, then yeah, it's going to bugger them up.

Logically of course too, if you run, you are likely to lose weight, if you lose weight then that is less weight and pressure on your knees, if you don't bother, and get fatter and fatter, then obviously that means your knees are going to be under more strain.

Is running bad for your knees?

Is running bad for your knees? Evidence suggests that runners are actually less likely to get osteoarthritis – here's why

www.livescience.com

There's plenty of evidence that suggests runners are less likely to get arthritis. A 2018 piece published in the Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery(opens in new tab) showed the arthritis rate of active marathoners was well below that of the general U.S. And another 2018 study published in Clinical Rheumatology(opens in new tab) found that patients with osteoarthritis experienced less pain if they ran regularly.

There are various theories for why this is the case. Researchers who published a study in the journal of Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise(opens in new tab) suggested that runner's have a lower risk of developing a bad case of osteoarthritis because of their lower BMI.

Running does not increase symptoms or structural progression in people with knee osteoarthritis: data from the osteoarthritis initiative - PubMed

Higher levels of moderate to vigorous physical activity improve all-cause mortality and cardiovascular events. However, the effect of running, a moderate to vigorous activity, in those with knee osteoarthritis (OA), a common arthritis that occurs with aging, a high-risk group for mortality and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

*Of course cynically it would of course be in the best interests of the huge sports companies to conduct studies to tell us that running is good for your knees, especially when we may be wearing their shoes!

But look at former athletes, are any of them in wheelchairs? Nope, many of them still run.

 

[The Bear]

I wasn't thinking of cumulative injuries, but sudden twisting injuries like ligaments. Which given the uneven surfaces we must have run quickly over, would probably have happened more often than you think.

 

[Aikiwolf]

It's an interesting article.

Just to dispel cartilage supporting the knee. It doesn't, it only deteriorates, cartilage can't grow back.

At the risk of patronising, cartilage is a shock absorber in the knee, a foam/ gel like in structure in that mechanically it compresses and distributes forces when under pressure and because it has an elasticity it can mould and return to shape around other living tissue.

Poor phraseology on my behalf, I should have said "adapts"!

 

[Tredman]

Right, knee pain….

Got some new shoes - Reebok Floatride X (with a carbon plate) I usually run in Hoka Clifton or normal Floatrides. Ran in the Xs today and the inside front of both knees hurts - it’s not the foam, drop or rocker on the X as all are pretty similar to the Floatride 4, so I guess it’s the plate.

Should I just sell them on asap or see if it’s something which goes away with time?

 

[EpsomWolf]

See if you can part-exchange them for a Cannondale.

 

[Tredman]

 

[EpsomWolf]

Joking aside, it does show the delicacy of the knee when a change of shoe can have such an affect.

 

[Aikiwolf]

As per EpsomWolf, I'd take them back and exchange if you're feeling pain after running in them.

 

[Johnny75]

Right, knee pain….

Got some new shoes - Reebok Floatride X (with a carbon plate) I usually run in Hoka Clifton or normal Floatrides. Ran in the Xs today and the inside front of both knees hurts - it’s not the foam, drop or rocker on the X as all are pretty similar to the Floatride 4, so I guess it’s the plate.

Should I just sell them on asap or see if it’s something which goes away with time?

There's a place called Sub-4 not far from you which has fittings of shoes and they can do a gait analysis.

If both your knees are hurting it could be mechanical but they'll find it if it is.

 

[Tredman]

There's a place called Sub-4 not far from you which has fittings of shoes and they can do a gait analysis.

If both your knees are hurting it could be mechanical but they'll find it if it is.

I've been and had my gait analysis done last year - pretty neutral and generally I'm fine in most running shoes. This is really annoying as Reebok floatrides have been really good for me so far, can only think it is the plate.

 

[Johnny75]

I've been and had my gait analysis done last year - pretty neutral and generally I'm fine in most running shoes. This is really annoying as Reebok floatrides have been really good for me so far, can only think it is the plate.

Worth going back and asking?