The Manager Sacked/Hired Thread 2023/24

[MARKakaJIM]

Not especially, we lost away to them in a WC qualifier under Capello and obviously didn't exist before the early 90s

Only a couple of starters I'd recognize and similar on the bench, doesn't appear the most worrying opponent.

Funnily enough also amongst that research found that England were top scorers in the European qualifiers that time around.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

You also get the brilliant shifting sands on the whole "we just lose to the first good team we face" trope.

Colombia, Germany, Denmark, Croatia etc all automatically become shit and we should be beating them anyway as soon as we've got the job done.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Go on @Tony Towner give me a good argument why comparing previous England managers against Southgate is "bizarre"?

 

[Tony Towner]

Because it's completely and utterly irrelevant. Different eras, different sqauds, different circumstances, different ambitions, different ceilings and floors. I wouldn't say he's doing well because he compares favourably to McClaren any more than I'd say he's doing badly compared to Ramsey or has a worse win percentage than Allardyce.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

How on earth is it not irrelevant!? Honestly. This IS bizarre.

Different ambitions? No, the ambition has always been for England to win a tournament, and international football is far less transient than club football.

Comparing how England are doing now with how they have over history is totally relevant!

 

[Tony Towner]

Ok substitute the word ambition for realistic expectation there's only Venables, Sven and Southgate who have managed England teams since Ramsey where that expectation to win was realistic. The media creamed other managers, but the squad wasn't good enough. Venables once, Sven twice and this will be Southgate's third.

 

[leedswolf]

Best summary I've seen of the clusterfuck that has been the management of the England team since Ramsay (or since the early 70s as the game had passed Ramsay by '72 when West Germany took England apart in the QF of the Euros).

International management is a totally different beast to that of club football and Southgate has provided us with England's best performances for nearly 60 years.

As for not winning a major tournament (yet) there is often an element of luck that also tends to come into play.

The best European international tournament team I ever saw was the Netherlands from the 70s and they failed to win a trophy (I say European as the best international tournament team for me was Brazil 1970).

In 66, Brazil.were touted as the best ( having won in 58 and 62), but failed to get out of the group stage IIRC.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Ok substitute the word ambition for realistic expectation there's only Venables, Sven and Southgate who have managed England teams since Ramsey where that expectation to win was realistic. The media creamed other managers, but the squad wasn't good enough. Venables once, Sven twice and this will be Southgate's third.

We were heavily fancied ahead of Euro 88, no?

Might have gone all the way at Mexico 86 if not for good & bad Maradona, then only dropped 1 point in qualifying (a 0-0 in Turkey) and conceded 1 goal along the way.

Lineker at Barca, Barnes and Beardsley tearing it up at Liverpool, Bryan Robson probably at his peak, Hoddle still around and highly regarded and Shilton still near his best.

Only an 8 team tournament too and we had Ireland in our group who'd never qualified for anything ever.

 

[Tony Towner]

We were heavily fancied ahead of Euro 88, no?

Might have gone all the way at Mexico 86 if not for good & bad Maradona, then only dropped 1 point in qualifying (a 0-0 in Turkey) and conceded 1 goal along the way.

Lineker at Barca, Barnes and Beardsley tearing it up at Liverpool, Bryan Robson probably at his peak, Hoddle still around and highly regarded and Shilton still near his best.

Only an 8 team tournament too and we had Ireland in our group who'd never qualified for anything ever.

Holland and West Germany were the favourites, the 3 AC players at the one and the 3 Inter ones at the other with Italy 3rd given the strength of their league. No doubt the Ireland defeat was a massive upset and we were expected to go through ahead of USSR, but other than the red tops the expectation at the outset was one of those two winning, particularly with it being in West Germany and our clubs being banned from Europe

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Have England ever been outright favourites for a tournament?

Obviously in England the bookies have us shorter than we really are, but we're usually always in the top 4 or 6? It doesn't differ that hugely?

 

[lemonjelly]

Ok substitute the word ambition for realistic expectation there's only Venables, Sven and Southgate who have managed England teams since Ramsey where that expectation to win was realistic. The media creamed other managers, but the squad wasn't good enough. Venables once, Sven twice and this will be Southgate's third.

Capello was pretty good right up to the moment he selected his squad for the SA WC imo. Up to then he picked players on form for the correct position. I have no fucking idea what happened but he picked injured players etc, and it all went to shit.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

 

[YoungWolf]

Capello was pretty good right up to the moment he selected his squad for the SA WC imo. Up to then he picked players on form for the correct position. I have no fucking idea what happened but he picked injured players etc, and it all went to shit.

Very very bizarre period of time. Scrapped everything we’d done really well in qualifying, tried to call up aging and/or long retired players, fucked around with the GK. Did he still Terry of the captaincy that year too?

 

[Alan]

I for one think Capello did a fantastic job with the GK position at South Africa.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Very very bizarre period of time. Scrapped everything we’d done really well in qualifying, tried to call up aging and/or long retired players, fucked around with the GK. Did he still Terry of the captaincy that year too?

Rio was down to be captain for 2010 but Heskey managed to injure him in the very first training session. Great work Mr Em.

Ostensibly Capello quit ahead of Euro 2012 because Terry got found not guilty (not proven more like) of being a racist in a court of law, but the FA said that on the balance of probabilities he was, so he's banned from Chelsea for a few games and he can't be England captain any more, and Capello wasn't having it. In reality I think he'd just had enough and knew we weren't going to be winning the tournament, so used it as a convenient excuse to leave.

 

[jd1981]

Yeah Capello just went off leading up to and during the 2010 World Cup, remember the press saying something really isn’t right at all.
We beat Croatia 9-2 on aggregate in the group stages and blew everyone else’s away only loss was a dead rubber in Ukraine.

 

[BillyDee]

John Terry was in the middle of his FA hearing when he turned up for our 6-0 thrashing in the League Cup at the Bridge.
That was a fun evening...

 

[YoungWolf]

John Terry was in the middle of his FA hearing when he turned up for our 6-0 thrashing in the League Cup at the Bridge.
That was a fun evening...

Ha, I was at that one. Saw Razak in the flesh (no he didn’t look he would be better than Bakary).

Some team that actually

De vries
Stearman Batth margreitter Zubar
Peszko Davis Edwards hunt
Boukari
Sigurdarson

Did get to see zeli ismail’s debut though

 

[Lycan]

Poor Peszko. He was alright.

 

[YoungWolf]

Poor Peszko. He was alright.

Yeah he was. His injury really seemed to derail us at the time too.