The Manager Sacked/Hired Thread 2023/24

[Alan]

I'd say the pool of players he's had to select from have been as good as any I've witnessed, including the early 2000s when we failed to get out the group in South Africa.

We should be reaching semi finals minimum and with the players we have in attack, we should be less pragmatic and trust them more.

Kane, Foden, Saka, Grealish, Maddison etc then behind them Bellingham and Rice surely should have enough to see off anyone. I'd accept defeat if they gave it a go, but it's almost as if they're being held back.

Only position I'd worry about is between the posts, all of them seem to have a moment that makes me wince.

Y'all made it out of the EASY group in 2010? Then VAR's original inflection point cost you against Germany.

Yes, even I know about that newspaper.

 

[Tony Towner]

Y'all made it out of the EASY group in 2010? Then VAR's original inflection point cost you against Germany.

Yes, even I know about that newspaper.

The Lampard 'goal' is a bit of a red herring. Germany smacked us that day.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Yeah, 4-1 flattered us. We were atrocious in that tournament.

 

[Alan]

The Lampard 'goal' is a bit of a red herring. Germany smacked us that day.

Aye, I still think of that moment as the tipping point for tech being brought in, though (rightly or wrongly).

 

[Kenny]

Rowett confirmed at Blues for the rest of the season.
Mowbray on a formal leave of absence until the start of next season.

 

[Tony Towner]

Venus booted out until the Summer too. That feels like a termination not a sabbatical, time will tell.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

That would break whole chunks of employment law

 

[KiwiWolf61]

I like how only Southgate gets beaten with this stick too when if anything, he's less guilty of it than his predecessors and he can also point to his record if some moaning cunt comes along.

The multiple 70s mavericks have one thing in common, they hardly played for England.

Sir Bob got rid of Keegan and binned off Hoddle by 1988, and didn't play Gazza until right before Italia 90.

Taylor systematically stripped the squad of all flair. Barely picked Shearer.

Free spirit El Tel ignored Le Tissier throughout, hardly gave peak Collymore a go and pretty much never picked Ian Wright. Didn't pick Scholes or Beckham when they were coming through for United.

Hoddle also didn't pick Le Tissier and ended Gazza's England career so he could take Rob Lee to France 98 instead. Took Les Ferdinand to play 0 minutes after he'd scored 5 goals two seasons in a row for Spurs. Left Owen and Beckham out of the XI to start with.

Entertainer Keegan had an ancient Ince in CM and Dennis Wise wide left in Euro 2000. Didn't take Rio Ferdinand.

Sven couldn't be arsed with McManaman when he was winning multiple Champions Leagues for Real Madrid. Took Martin Keown as an extra CH to Japan/Korea 2002 (played 0 minutes) than any number of potential attacking players.

McClaren got rid of David fucking Beckham before having to backtrack (too late).

And so on and so on.

And yet there isn't this glaringly obvious player that Gareth Southgate is ignoring, misusing or wasting, just vague "he's too safe" and "we've outgrown him" statements that stand up to very little scrutiny.

Best summary I've seen of the clusterfuck that has been the management of the England team since Ramsay (or since the early 70s as the game had passed Ramsay by '72 when West Germany took England apart in the QF of the Euros).

International management is a totally different beast to that of club football and Southgate has provided us with England's best performances for nearly 60 years.

As for not winning a major tournament (yet) there is often an element of luck that also tends to come into play.

The best European international tournament team I ever saw was the Netherlands from the 70s and they failed to win a trophy (I say European as the best international tournament team for me was Brazil 1970).

 

[The Bear]

I agree that Southgate has done a decent job of getting results for the most part.

But, I also agree he is a very limited coach tactically, particularly when things aren't going his way. As mentioned above he tends to just go defensive and hope for the best that one of his attackers will pull something out of the bag.

If he has to switch things up, make some subs and take the game to the opposition, I think he falls flat on his face. Which considering the array of attacking talent we have this generation, is shite. Things like taking Saka off against France, or just sitting back against Italy after we'd scored early. Dreadful stuff.

I wouldn't outright call for his head because of it, but someone who is pragmatic but braver in games when necessary maybe would suit our attacking squad a bit better. The issue is our central defence is fairly vulnerable and the weakest part of the squad compared to other positions.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

No I get it all, and I'm not saying he's a sheister, and his record is excellent and some of the alternatives don't look great on paper, and I haven't got and cba to get the stats to back up any of my feelings that he's not getting, and isn't capable of/minded to play the kind of football that will get the best out of Saka/Foden/Bellingham, but here I am

Sorry mate, but it just sounds like you're bored and want a change for changes sake without offering any genuine alternative.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Southgate has had exceptionally kind draws. The only team he’s beaten that you wouldn’t expect was Germany and they’re not exactly top drawer at the moment. The Croatia game was like watching a slow motion car crash. We just sat deeper and deeper and the inevitable happened. We have a ridiculous array of attacking talent and hopefully at the fourth time of asking he can get the best out of them rather than be so defensive.

This is bollocks though isn't it?

The draws seem kind because we have won those games.

Games that in the past we struggled to win, quick examples such as Romania when Phil Neville fucked up, or again losing to Romania so we ended up playing Argentina in 98.

The reason some of our opponents have been easier is BECAUSE of Southgate's England performing well in qualifying and in the group stages of tournaments.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

And are we "so defensive"?

We clattered in more goals under Southgate than any other manager in modern times (if not ever).

Do you not remember how dour and negative we were under Robson, Taylor, Hoddle, Keegan, Capello and Eriksson?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Games that you'd have had England down as strong favourites to win but we didn't:

1986: Portugal & Morocco
1988: Ireland
1990: Ireland
1992: Denmark & Sweden
1996: Switzerland
1998: Romania
2000: Romania
2002: Sweden & Nigeria
2006: Sweden
2010: USA & Algeria
2014: Costa Rica
2016: Russia, Slovakia & Iceland
2021: Scotland
2022: USA

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Can you imagine an England team winning a group with Italy and Ukraine in as comfortably as this in the 90s, 00s or early 10s?

We did the double over Italy too.

 

[Tony Towner]

And are we "so defensive"?

We clattered in more goals under Southgate than any other manager in modern times (if not ever).

Do you not remember how dour and negative we were under Robson, Taylor, Hoddle, Keegan, Capello and Eriksson?

Bizarre comparison, like measuring how O'Neil is performing versus Hoddle, Turner, Taylor from a timing perspective. How those managers did is irrelevant to the discussion on Southgate

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Have Ukraine ever been a daunting opponent?

 

[KiwiWolf61]

And are we "so defensive"?

We clattered in more goals under Southgate than any other manager in modern times (if not ever).

Do you not remember how dour and negative we were under Robson, Taylor, Hoddle, Keegan, Capello and Eriksson?

What a great point !

In the nearly 60 years of watching England they have mostly been turgid and dull. These last few years are not the norm ie scoring goals instead of labouring to beat Trinidad or draw against Algeria.

 

[Tony Towner]

Have Ukraine ever been a daunting opponent?

Not especially, we lost away to them in a WC qualifier under Capello and obviously didn't exist before the early 90s

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Have Ukraine ever been a daunting opponent?

Definitely would have been in the peak days of Shevchenko and Rebrov, especially away.

The only qualifier that Capello lost with England was against Ukraine and we definitely failed to beat them at home under Hodgson. Ran us close in Euro 2012 itself too.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Bizarre comparison, like measuring how O'Neil is performing versus Hoddle, Turner, Taylor from a timing perspective. How those managers did is irrelevant to the discussion on Southgate

No, what is bizarre is not comparing our current manager with what has gone before him.

Throw in Hodgson and McClaren if you like too.