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Wolves 0-0 Swansea Verdict thread

Tony Towner said:
I think on this and the Batth red card, there's been a lot of comments based on what people believe the rules should be, not what they are.
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Yeah I do agree. I am guilty of this myself .

jlovatt said:
I've been arguing for sin bins for years, but now I don't think it would work. If you have a player off the pitch, you're just going to time waste until they get back on the pitch. It'll ruin the game flow.

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That is my issue too. There are always new things that people will find ways around.
 
You'd have to couple sin bins with time off, then you'd need to look at actually reducing the game to 60 mins (I think this was around the time the ball is actually in play for most games?)
 
YoungWolf said:
Fer's foul wasn't a pul back though was it, or even really a trip. He actually kicked Costa as he was running away. As Noodle said, if he did that off the ball he would be sent off, so I can actually understand people's view on it.

Johnny's idea of a sin bin is actually quite interesting as the punishment for slowing the game down with a cynical foul isn't currently a deterrent.

What doesn't help the debate is all this proper football men nonsense (ie. "the games gone I tell you") and sarcastic responses to what was actually quite an interesting discussion.
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He doesn't kick him hard though, it's a tiny little tap. Doesn't go down the back of his calf with his studs or swipe at him, it's a little toe tap. You can't send players off for that no matter how frustrating it is to see.

Sin bins will see how many players sent there though that shouldn't be. I can see it now, player knocks the ball past the defender runs into him and gets a free kick. Now the defender can't get out of the way but the referee deems he has stopped the attacker and was cynical. This happens a fair bit and usually sees the ref give a yellow card which isn't right either by the way but in the world of sin bins it would see teams have to play with one man less. It's another thing that imo will cause more problems than there currently is. There's several other types of fouls that are quite harsh when given and yellows are shown that would become sin bin offences.

In terms of proper football men saying the games gone, i'm not one because it hasn't but i think we're in danger of it becoming something it doesn't need to be. Now does progress need to happen yes it does as in anything and football has gone through several rule changes that have helped the game, some will argue they haven't but i just think football is so much harder than many other sports to give definite decisions. I said on the live discussion thread the other day that one decision can see thousands, millions even split in to what they think the decision should be and we've seen that happen so often in the last week, i currently don't see how things like VAR and sin bins would change that, i think they would add to the debate and make things worse at the minute. Now if they improve and show that they can be used effectively which i admit i'm very skeptical about then fine but right now they aren't.
 
anybody found highlights that can be viewed overseas ?
 
I honestly don't think football is in any danger of becoming anything it can not or should not be.

I'm sure there was plenty of opposition to many rule changes in the past, as you said mate. Like say, the back pass rule, in 1992 (perhaps the old contingent can help me out here if this was the case). And that was during the one of the most important periods ever in football which arguably changed more than it ever has, on and off the pitch. You can look further back at the offside rule changes before that. Or when goalkeepers could handle the ball all the way up to the half way line even longer before that. People would possibly have looked at that and thought it was crazy to change but we will look back now and think it was mental it was like that in the first place.

There's nothing wrong with changing things, or trialling things, IMO. There are always going to be changes that people do not like but that is part and parcel of it all I am afraid. VAR to me is something that is very interesting. There are lots of obstacles due to the fluid nature of football and the many, many variables. But if it can improve referee decisions by just 1% I don't see a problem with it to be honest.

Sin bins are currently being trialled in lower leagues I think so will be interesting to see the results of that. I am on the fence with it but either way it is worth the discussion.
 
I think it's a fine line though mate. Just look at some of the rule changes that were put forward last year for a panel to look at like no offsides or american style penalties. Some of them make sense but then some of them are going to change the game completely when it doesn't need to be changed that much.

The thing with VAR though is that at the minute it doesn't improve refereeing decisions because as you say football is fluid and a lot of decisions are down to interpretation. I currently don't see a way around that unless we change the game drastically like say make it non contact. If there is a way we can help referees and we can get more decisions right and it doesn't alter the flow of the game then i'm all for it but i'm yet to be convinced by anyone pushing it and after seeing it in action.

My point on sin bins, still stands. You would have more players going off that shouldn't be and as JLovatt said teams would disrupt the flow of the game by time wasting and then this changes the whole dynamics of football again when things don't need to be changed that much.
 
YoungWolf said:
Fer's foul wasn't a pul back though was it, or even really a trip. He actually kicked Costa as he was running away. As Noodle said, if he did that off the ball he would be sent off, so I can actually understand people's view on it.

Johnny's idea of a sin bin is actually quite interesting as the punishment for slowing the game down with a cynical foul isn't currently a deterrent.

What doesn't help the debate is all this proper football men nonsense (ie. "the games gone I tell you") and sarcastic responses to what was actually quite an interesting discussion.
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Top post.
 
slink said:
I think it's a fine line though mate. Just look at some of the rule changes that were put forward last year for a panel to look at like no offsides or american style penalties. Some of them make sense but then some of them are going to change the game completely when it doesn't need to be changed that much.

The thing with VAR though is that at the minute it doesn't improve refereeing decisions because as you say football is fluid and a lot of decisions are down to interpretation. I currently don't see a way around that unless we change the game drastically like say make it non contact. If there is a way we can help referees and we can get more decisions right and it doesn't alter the flow of the game then i'm all for it but i'm yet to be convinced by anyone pushing it and after seeing it in action.

My point on sin bins, still stands. You would have more players going off that shouldn't be and as JLovatt said teams would disrupt the flow of the game by time wasting and then this changes the whole dynamics of football again when things don't need to be changed that much.
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Luddite thinking Slink. Football does need to change as the number of comments on referees increases. Moaning about the ref when the rules are clear (and they are) is wandering into shit pundit territory that achieves absolutely nothing.

If the trials of VAR (which I think will work) and sin bins are worth it even if it is to rule sonething out. Not trialling them or anything else and complaining about decisions is stupid.
 
b3h said:
Bright. Feel like since he's come back from not being in the team there's been a big change to his play. Like he's been working on picking up the ball and seeking others out (/quicker) and forward runs etc have been cut way back so that when he's on the ball things are more simple. Like he's being moulded into a playmaker when I'm not sure what he was only a few months back. He was a getontheballandfuckiter. He's a lot quicker now making decisions I think at least. Thought I'd give him some credit as I gave him enough stick earlier on in season
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I didn't see the game but that's an interesting observation. I've mentioned before that I think Bright could be really special with the proper education, but he needs to find his best position and learn the tactical bit. Basically he either has to learn how to play a lot more direct to play the outside/inside forward or stirker role (which, based on what we've seen this season he really isn't inclined to). Or he needs to learn to play the ball more quickly and link up with others in the playmaker role (I think it's mainly his decison making that's lacking here). His main skills the way I see it is close control, dribbling and physique (he is strong for a 19 yo), rather than pace and a direct goal threat, which would arguably make him better suited to a withdrawn central role.
 
playtheace said:
it's not stick per se, it's the $#@!ing collective groaning when he doesn't do something vaguely what people think he should...it $#@!ing riles me.

Bonatini lost the ball and no one moans at all,minute later Bright runs into some players and it's spaff spaff spaff.

All that said, recently he seems to be releasing the ball quicker than he was doing (although the only reason it feels like he holds onto it longer is because of the fans over reactions imo)
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Perhaps we should gag them as their opinion is unwanted. I don't like it but fans can do what they want it doesn't help but hey ho, he will have to shut em up with displays they can believe in. Nuno obviously rates him and will make him a better player if he can.
 
Back home after a decent weekend - most has been said already, on the Reds couldn't see Vinagre's at the time as players in the way, but after watching MoTD clearly was though unfortunate

Fer's wasn't though deserved to go for being that cynical - about the only thing the Ref gave us

Agree MoTM - N'Daiye, got through a prodigious amount of work particularly after MGW was taken off. Was a surprisingly entertaining game given that there were no goals (though we should have put at least one in). Apart from the free kick just over the bar? (reckon Norris just touched it - Swansea players were sure he had) they offered little & were poor. No chance of staying up on that evidence (how Bony is a PL player I am not sure)

Just seemed to me that we were a fraction off in thought & deed than we would have been with a full strength team out which is probably not that surprising.

Thanks to Kenny for the loan of his seat (& yes I will give you some money when I next see you) - managed the stairs fine which at my time of life is not a given, but had forgotten how steep the gradient is on the NB Upper - good view though. Also wasn't any aggro towards Bright around where I was.

Got talking to a group of Austrian lads in the Bohemian after - they take in a weekend each year to go a couple of UK games & try to do grounds they have not done before (are at the Forest v Arsenal game today). Were impressed with Molineux & our play. Was interesting to note how knowledgeable they were about our team - knew who we had left out & were interested in the background to the fringe players we brought in.
 
Johnny75 said:
Luddite thinking Slink. Football does need to change as the number of comments on referees increases. Moaning about the ref when the rules are clear (and they are) is wandering into shit pundit territory that achieves absolutely nothing.

If the trials of VAR (which I think will work) and sin bins are worth it even if it is to rule sonething out. Not trialling them or anything else and complaining about decisions is stupid.
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Did you miss the bit where i said that if we can help referees to get more decisions right without altering the flow of the game then i'm all for it? Or where i said earlier that football does need to progress? I'm not opposed to any changes but they have to help the game and do so without changing the dynamics of the game too much imo. That's not luddite thinking at all.

I've not said i'm against trials either, they are happening right now and in some instances the right decisions are being given such as in the Inter vs Lazio game but then in others they aren't. My main point is that i don't want the game to be interrupted and become more stop start and that is what i think it could become. There's nothing wrong with that at all. There's various other things been put forward like a referee in each half or a video ref advising the referee in real time without stopping the game and they could work but again they have flaws or stumbling blocks.
 
Aren't sin bins being trialled this season in the division below Conference North/South? Haven't heard how it's going yet.

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One thing that seems to have been missed in the discussion about the Vinagre sending off is that as he was trying to get to the ball he was being pulled back and impeded by the other Swansea player which MAY have been contributory to him being late.
 
It was, but it doesn't make the tackle itself any less of a clear red card unfortunately
 
One thing that people should realise is that if in his report the referee said that Fer kicked or kicked out at Costa then that explain why he got a straight red. It does not matter how hard he kicked him, if the referee felt it was a deliberate kick rather than a trip then a red card would be the punishment.
 
FrankMunro-371 said:
One thing that people should realise is that if in his report the referee said that Fer kicked or kicked out at Costa then that explain why he got a straight red. It does not matter how hard he kicked him, if the referee felt it was a deliberate kick rather than a trip then a red card would be the punishment.
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Thats exactly as I saw it a trip does not involve a bend at the knee.

He aimed a kick. If a player just clicks someones heels together it will be a Yellow card, as soon as aplayer bends his leg at the knee its a kick.

I have seen Yellows given for that I have also seen reds.

A red card is given if a player kicks or kicks out at a player in my view thats what i saw....

Glad it was a cup game have him in my Fantasy Football team.
 
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