Crystal Palace 2-1 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[Tony Towner]

He was, he played so well they had to tactically adjust for him and yet seen many elsewhere saying he needs to be given away for free etc, he doesn't do great on either goal but he isn't alone, on the first he gets sucked inside as the CB follows Zaha out, so Semedo moves across, his issue is not checking the movement of the player he had been near.

His biggest issue fan wise is and will always be the price we paid. He's a 15m full back we paid twice that for. The expectation should be higher than "he doesn't do great on either goal". The first half becomes somewhat irrelevant when you are largely culpable for both goals in the second.

I queried whilst Lage was still here whether we collectively overrate this team. A lot of comments as the window closed (including by me) about us having the best squad in our lifetimes. I now don't think we have, we have the most expensive one, which lacks fight. It's built to dominate games without the all round quality to do so, not dig in. Punts sums it up.well. If we are in the bottom 3 come say February then we will go down, they aren't going to scrap to stay up in that last dozen games and they won't be around next year to feel the consequences.

 

[Tredman]

He was also very shit defensively second half. After the weird subs he seemed to be the only one carrying the ball forward - in one move Davis took off literally every player who was able to move the ball forward.

 

[1986]

His biggest issue fan wise is and will always be the price we paid. He's a 15m full back we paid twice that for. The expectation should be higher than "he doesn't do great on either goal". The first half becomes somewhat irrelevant when you are largely culpable for both goals in the second.

I queried whilst Lage was still here whether we collectively overrate this team. A lot of comments as the window closed (including by me) about us having the best squad in our lifetimes. I now don't think we have, we have the most expensive one, which lacks fight. It's built to dominate games without the all round quality to do so, not dig in. Punts sums it up.well. If we are in the bottom 3 come say February then we will go down, they aren't going to scrap to stay up in that last dozen games and they won't be around next year to feel the consequences.

It's about time that the comments on us having ' the best squad ever ' get called out for the nonsense it is .

I mentioned a few days ago that in a relegation scrap you need players who are willing to fight in your team - I don't see that ability in our team . I see a lot of technically gifted players who are pretty good on the front foot perhaps , but when our backs are to the wall I'm not so sure .
A top class squad has to include workhorses , ball winners , tacklers , leaders on and off the pitch - we are missing a lot of those skills . We therefore are a long way from having the ' best squad ever ' in my view .

 

[1986]

I'd play Ronan over Hodge if we need a midfielder to come on.

100% agree .

People forget that of all the younger players on the bench , Ronan is the only one that has regularly player in adult leagues . Those leagues might not be PL standard , but at least it's at adult level . Hodge , Cundle ( when he was here ) and Chem do not have that experience .

Can we please give Ronan 15 minutes on Sunday .

 

[sycophantia]

Disgraceful seems ott for Semedo, he was excellent first half, Zaha got nothing out of him.
Yes he was partly at fault for both goals but they were a defensive cluster fuck by the defence and midfield.
Subs in midfield were needed but probably 10 minutes too soon and left us short physically.
Not gunna go in hard on Hodge but him and Moutinho are never going to be strong enough especially when they're only help was Podence and Guedes.
Tbf to Collins he didn't have much on the bench.
We're all frustrated to lose that game but there were encouraging signs first half and the last 10-15 minutes.
Hopefully we have a coach soon who has a clue about game management.

 

[The Bear]

Looks like I'm the only one who thought Hodge had a reasonable game. He had plenty of energy, got up and down the pitch well and was always eager for the ball. He also looked comfortable enough when in possession. I get that it might be too much too soon but he's 20 years old and in a struggling team.

You're not the only one. He performed well and was involved in almost everything we did, including attacks. He played better than Nunes.

 

[Tredman]

Looked like a competition winner. No lack of effort but doesn’t have any stand out abilities. Shouldn’t be anywhere near playing in the premier league.

 

[Tony Towner]

Part of the Hodge problem was coming on at the same time as Moutinho against a physical side. As a double sub it killed us, I doubt very much Ronan would have made any difference for the same reason.

There's some greeness to B Traore's game, another who didn't cover himself in glory on the first goal and he'll be a card magnet, but has to start most games now for me, although I can't see a 433 that works properly incorporating him, Neves, Moutinho or Nunes. Someone at some point is going to have to make a big decision

 

[Johnny75]

You're not the only one. He performed well and was involved in almost everything we did, including attacks. He played better than Nunes.

This is laughable.

What did he do well?

 

[The Bear]

This is laughable.

What did he do well?

What did he do badly?

 

[Tredman]

What did he do badly?

Is that the criteria for playing for us?

 

[NicholasG1973]

Hodge genuinely looked like they’d just picked some random lad out of the crowd and given them a shirt, nowhere near good enough and it’s shocking management to bring him on.

I agree with this.

And it’s not Hodge’s fault - this is on Davis and his misguided loyalty to his youth players.

Part of the problem is that the U23’s is such a shit standard of football, there’s nothing preparing the players.

This is the fucking Premier League not the SPL.

Central midfield is about the only place on the pitch where we have a couple of options……I don’t want to see Hodge, Ronan, Cundle on the pitch, thanks.

Those three are not going to be the answer if we’re trying to get out this mess.

They might be good enough one day - but they’re not what we need now.

 

[prawnking]

What did he do badly?

He couldn't pass water

 

[AndyWolves]

Hodge played like a youth prospect.

That's not his fault, he's not ready for PL football yet.

Compare him to Bueno, who looked every inch ready for PL football.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

It's amazing how one half of football drained so much of my hope. At half time I was feeling pretty good. There had been some positive signs and we had scored a really nice goal, hit the post and missed another great chance. However, as soon as they immediately scored in the 2nd half you just knew it was only going to go one way. By full time relegation had gone from a worry in the background to a very real possibility.

We didn't even play that badly and there were definitely some positives compared to what we have had to watch recently. If we'd have got a point I would probably have been pretty pleased but instead I'm on a real downer now. The lack of fight and leadership is a worry and I hope this changes once the new manager comes in.

Oh well, beat Leicester and I'm sure I'll be all optimistic again!

 

[Lycan]

Can't believe this is a debate. Hodge was dreadful. He might go on to become a quality player but he's being shoehorned into the squad by his youth coach before he's ready. It's fair enough to believe in the kid but he shouldn't be playing Premier League football at this stage of his development and Davis should know that.

Bueno on the other hand was quality. The kind of performance from a young player that makes you wonder why he hasn't been given a chance before now. He's 100% ready for Premier League football and I'd be starting him Vs Leicester regardless of the availability of the other 3 full backs.

 

[prawnking]

It's amazing how one half of football drained so much of my hope. At half time I was feeling pretty good.

We're as mentally fragile as the players now. Need a proper figurehead to elevate us both

 

[Jinky]

His biggest issue fan wise is and will always be the price we paid. He's a 15m full back we paid twice that for. The expectation should be higher than "he doesn't do great on either goal". The first half becomes somewhat irrelevant when you are largely culpable for both goals in the second.

I queried whilst Lage was still here whether we collectively overrate this team. A lot of comments as the window closed (including by me) about us having the best squad in our lifetimes. I now don't think we have, we have the most expensive one, which lacks fight. It's built to dominate games without the all round quality to do so, not dig in. Punts sums it up.well. If we are in the bottom 3 come say February then we will go down, they aren't going to scrap to stay up in that last dozen games and they won't be around next year to feel the consequences.

Absolutely spot on. Semedo was excellent in the first half, but as you say, that becomes irrelevant when he has effectively cost us two goals in the second half due to poor positioning/lack of effort. We need it for 90 minutes, but he's not that kind of player.

In terms of your second paragraph, I wholeheartedly agree and this is a major concern for me. The lack of fight and leadership in the dressing room and on the pitch is alarming. Neves will say all the right things beforehand & he'll hustle around the middle of the park for 10-15 minutes here or there, but he's not a proper leader. Plus he'll be off in the summer so as you say, he won't feel the consequences of relegation. Behind him, I can't point to anyone who is backing him up. Collins could be that man in a few years but I thought the "young John Stones" comparison that someone mentioned a page or two ago was spot on too. People scoffed when we let Coady go, but we're missing him; maybe not so much on the pitch, but as a character and leader. Then the big characters like Saiss & Ruddy that have been allowed to go too - neither in our best 11, but clearly big personalities. That's all on Shi, Lage & Sellars. Absolute clown show in charge at the top.

Just to touch on an earlier point, as you also correctly state TT, many of this squad will be off in the summer or even during the next transfer window.

Semedo, Neves, Adama, Raul, Jonny, Podence, Guedes, Costa, Moutinho - they all very much feel like they're coming towards the end of their cycle here, or will be sold to make profit if we go down. They also all individually know (bar possibly Costa) that they'll all definitely get nice, comfortable moves somewhere else. Probably on the continent to some nice warm country too. Do we honestly believe they will fight and scrap for the shirt in a relegation dogfight? I don't. You can likely add Nunes to that list too as he won't be sticking around if we go down.

We'd then be left with a list of players like Ronan, Hodge, Yerson, Hwang, Campbell etc. Would that be good enough to come back up? Doubt it.

I think we are in serious, serious trouble; and it's mainly on Shi and co, but the players aren't helping.

 

[Tredman]

Absolutely spot on. Semedo was excellent in the first half, but as you say, that becomes irrelevant when he has effectively cost us two goals in the second half due to poor positioning/lack of effort. We need it for 90 minutes, but he's not that kind of player.

In terms of your second paragraph, I wholeheartedly agree and this is a major concern for me. The lack of fight and leadership in the dressing room and on the pitch is alarming. Neves will say all the right things beforehand & he'll hustle around the middle of the park for 10-15 minutes here or there, but he's not a proper leader. Plus he'll be off in the summer so as you say, he won't feel the consequences of relegation. Behind him, I can't point to anyone who is backing him up. Collins could be that man in a few years but I thought the "young John Stones" comparison that someone mentioned a page or two ago was spot on too. People scoffed when we let Coady go, but we're missing him; maybe not so much on the pitch, but as a character and leader. Then the big characters like Saiss & Ruddy that have been allowed to go too - neither in our best 11, but clearly big personalities. That's all on Shi, Lage & Sellars. Absolute clown show in charge at the top.

Just to touch on an earlier point, as you also correctly state TT, many of this squad will be off in the summer or even during the next transfer window.

Semedo, Neves, Adama, Raul, Jonny, Podence, Guedes, Costa, Moutinho - they all very much feel like they're coming towards the end of their cycle here, or will be sold to make profit if we go down. They also all individually know (bar possibly Costa) that they'll all definitely get nice, comfortable moves somewhere else. Probably on the continent to some nice warm country too. Do we honestly believe they will fight and scrap for the shirt in a relegation dogfight? I don't. You can likely add Nunes to that list too as he won't be sticking around if we go down.

We'd then be left with a list of players like Ronan, Hodge, Yerson, Hwang, Campbell etc. Would that be good enough to come back up? Doubt it.

I think we are in serious, serious trouble; and it's mainly on Shi and co, but the players aren't helping.

Costa looked to me to be the one trying to do the Coady role - look at him with Adama after his goal, or at the start of each half with Bueno. Sad state of affairs that he has to do it, shows how much the squad spirit has been gutted.

 

[Dire Wolf]

I didn't think Hodge was too bad, but clearly being thrust into PL football is way above his current level. He tried hard which seemed to be more than Nunes who looked like he is having major regrets over his transfer here. And with us being relegation candidates who can blame him, I bet that wasn't what he was sold.

Also, I know Guedes is universally disliked on here, and he has been a disappointment for sure, but I thought in his time on the pitch yesterday he offered more and contributed more than Podence by a long way. Podence had one brilliant pass for the Costa chance and was then garbage, giving the ball away, pretending to be hurt, trying fancy flicks, looking for free kicks, absolutely useless. I'd be happy to never see him pull on a Wolves shirt again.