QPR (H) 19/8 Build Up

[Premier Quality]

From all the accounts I've seen, creating chances was not the problem against Hull.

I kind of disagree with that - we didn't have loads of chances - our goal came from a keeper error, our next best chance from their back pass - Henry did one good cross which Benny headed back across goal, and Afobe set up a couple of chances for dicko, but there was definitely room to make more chances from the possession we had around their box.

A good example being when Edwards got to the loose ball outside their box and Dawson couldn't challenge, Daves first touch put it out for a goal kick - Pritchard, or sako, or anyone with close control would have been free in the box to either shoot or create an opportunity.

 

[DejaVuWolf]

Not really. We should be aiming to win every home game in this division. We're good enough to beat anyone in the league, especially at home.

"QPR look dogdirt at the moment, and we should be winning this"
""They can come off and have a rest if we're two or three up after an hour"
"We'll be all over QPR if we play like we did yesterday"
"As for him being worth his place against good teams, QPR are not a good team"


Sorry, my mistake then. I thought some were underestimating them.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Having watched loads of their games last season and their game on Saturday and observing that they were not very good in any of them, how would you like me to rate them?

 

[lemonjelly]

There appears to be a bit of a clamour for Le Fondre to start.
Personally, I disagree. I suspect that he may get 20-30 minutes.
I think that KJ should rest Afobe/Dicko next tuesday. Bright & Le Fondre can have the full 90 minutes in that game.

Dicko & Afobe are our best goalscorers. We need them to be playing tomorrow, and saturday.

 

[DejaVuWolf]

Having watched loads of their games last season and their game on Saturday and observing that they were not very good in any of them, how would you like me to rate them?

Pretty obvious why they didn't look like world beaters last season? All I'm saying is, it would be wise not to underestimate them as they have some very good, very experienced players in their squad.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Ok, they were rubbish in the Championship under Redknapp as well.

They have some reasonable players but so do most teams at this level, I'm not predicting we'll go and win 5-0 or anything but QPR aren't a very good team, that much is pretty clear. And ultimately what does it matter how any of us rate QPR, it's not like Kenny Jackett is reading this thread to gauge how good they are and deciding "that lot think they're rubbish, might as well treat it as a bit of a stroll, lads".

 

[lemonjelly]

They also have some poor players, low morale, and hangers on only there for the ££££££.
If we are genuinely ambitious about promotion and playing in the PL, then we ought to be looking at this game as winnable. That is not the same as expecting a walkover, or in anyway under-estimating, or dis-respecting QPR. I'm confident KJ & the players won't be doing that.

Re-reading your comments, I'd say 50% plus of the sentiment is positivity about the manner in which we are playing football, meaning we can go into the game with some confidence - provided we meet similar standards.

 

[DejaVuWolf]

Ok, they were rubbish in the Championship under Redknapp as well.

Yeah, I remember that now. They were so bad, they only went and got promoted!!:icon_cool:

Kind of proves my point really, I'll say no more on this subject.

 

[DejaVuWolf]

.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'm not sure you can prove your point when no-one knows what it is, and if you think QPR were a good team that season then you clearly didn't see any of their games.

 

[Penk Wolf]

This is it for me, I can appreciate the effort he puts in but we're back to where we were last season with him playing off the striker, we cannot afford to have someone who is in the team to fill an attacking brief, but he doesn't create anything, or beat a man, and doesn't really score enough goals either to compensate. And now he unbalances the side into the bargain as well as you can forget us attacking down the left, unless the striker(s) pull out there which leaves us shorthanded in the middle. As for him being worth his place against good teams (I disagree, but that's by the by), QPR are not a good team.

I'd go with Ojo, I'm not going to write him off on 20 minutes when we hardly had any of the ball. We have signed him to fill that gap so let's have a look. He won't do any worse than Edwards.

How many goals would you expect from an attacking midfielder? Did he get 8 last season, which I'd say is about right.

I'm all for changing him if we have better and so far from what I've seen Ojo definitely isn't. Wallace may well be, but it's quite a step up from League 2.

So far, Edwards has started the season well, so there is no reason to drop him. I also think people ignore that his movement creates space for our attackers.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

He got six in the league last season, given that he played most of his games virtually as a second striker that is not enough. Six is his best return by some way at this level in his entire career, I've been over his goalscoring previously, it really isn't particularly impressive. It only looks good in comparison to the likes of McDonald/Price who as good as never score.

Originally I drew the parallel with Alex Rae who by no means you would say was an out and out attacking midfielder, he scored 90 goals in 433 games in English football, all those appearances at Championship or above level. Dave Edwards has scored 43 goals in 351 games, 169 of those appearances came in League One or below. So unless he starts scoring at a rate of around one in two he's going to be some way off matching Rae, and you wouldn't say goalscoring was his strongest suit.

I don't think attacking wise he particularly makes room for others, the only net benefit is his occasional knack of arriving late in the box and then it's down to his variable finishing as to whether it ends up in the back of the net or not. As I say the most noticeable impact of him being in the team in this new role is him drifting into the middle and our strikers ending up on the left, I don't think that's a great situation.

Are we really judging Ojo on 20 minutes vs Hull when we had next to no possession? "Definitely not better than Edwards"?

 

[Penk Wolf]

He got six in the league last season, given that he played most of his games virtually as a second striker that is not enough. Six is his best return by some way at this level in his entire career, I've been over his goalscoring previously, it really isn't particularly impressive. It only looks good in comparison to the likes of McDonald/Price who as good as never score.

Originally I drew the parallel with Alex Rae who by no means you would say was an out and out attacking midfielder, he scored 90 goals in 433 games in English football, all those appearances at Championship or above level. Dave Edwards has scored 43 goals in 351 games, 169 of those appearances came in League One or below. So unless he starts scoring at a rate of around one in two he's going to be some way off matching Rae, and you wouldn't say goalscoring was his strongest suit.

I don't think attacking wise he particularly makes room for others, the only net benefit is his occasional knack of arriving late in the box and then it's down to his variable finishing as to whether it ends up in the back of the net or not. As I say the most noticeable impact of him being in the team in this new role is him drifting into the middle and our strikers ending up on the left, I don't think that's a great situation.

Are we really judging Ojo on 20 minutes vs Hull when we had next to no possession? "Definitely not better than Edwards"?

No.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'm all for changing him if we have better and so far from what I've seen Ojo definitely isn't.

As I said earlier in the thread, if Ojo is not a better left sided midfielder than Dave Edwards then he hasn't got any business being here.

 

[slink]

As I said earlier in the thread, if Ojo is not a better left sided midfielder than Dave Edwards then he hasn't got any business being here.

Edwards isn't playing in an orthodox left midfield position though is he?

 

[Johnny75]

Edwards isn't playing in an orthodox left midfield position though is he?

You're right he isn't, it's not clear where he's playing or what his role is. Other then to run around and make runs into the area (late or otherwise).

I'm with DW I wish this myth of Edwards creating space was nipped in the bud as it's rubbish, he doesn't at all. Running off the ball is not creating space (not aimed at you Slink).

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Edwards isn't playing in an orthodox left midfield position though is he?

No, but we'd look a lot better if we did have someone out on that side filling a more orthodox position. At the moment we're getting all of the negatives from having zero width on that side and not many positives as far as I can see.

As was said earlier in the thread, we have a good chance of beating QPR regardless of what we do. I just don't see that this is going to work, I'm not sure what people were seeing in Edwards' performance on Sunday that was compelling evidence that we should keep trying it. Standard issue stuff from him, minimal involvement on the ball, had a good chance, this time he missed it (or failed to even make contact), sometimes he scores and all is apparently right with the world.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

You're right he isn't, it's not clear where he's playing or what his role is. Other then to run around and make runs into the area (late or otherwise).

I'm with DW I wish this myth of Edwards creating space was nipped in the bud as it's rubbish, he doesn't at all. Running off the ball is not creating space (not aimed at you Slink).

Not always no but it certainly can be.

It's working a treat down the left hand side for City at the moment, Sterling hasn't been that influential yet himself but his movement inside is creating a lot of space for Kolarov to exploit.

 

[The Bear]

Not many positives = Winning goal v Blackburn and what could easily have been the winning goal against Hull. He's been as much of a goal threat as Dicko so far this season. That's enough to keep him in the team for now until Ojo starts producing something from off the bench.

 

[slink]

No, but we'd look a lot better if we did have someone out on that side filling a more orthodox position. At the moment we're getting all of the negatives from having zero width on that side and not many positives as far as I can see.

As was said earlier in the thread, we have a good chance of beating QPR regardless of what we do. I just don't see that this is going to work, I'm not sure what people were seeing in Edwards' performance on Sunday that was compelling evidence that we should keep trying it. Standard issue stuff from him, minimal involvement on the ball, had a good chance, this time he missed it (or failed to even make contact), sometimes he scores and all is apparently right with the world.

That's a completely different debate though, we are clearly going to be playing this narrow formation and so Edwards is a better option than Ojo imo. He's probably not as comfortable on the ball but he has good movement and his closing down and work rate when we aren't in possession is vital.

When it comes to this formation i'm not entirely sold on it either for many reasons but then i'm not totally against it either as i can see a way of playing it that would enable us to keep playing Dicko and Afobe and still have a threat from central midfield while not being wide open in there.